primul sport organizat a fost cand primul homo sapiens a intrat in pestera ursului deoarece il batuse nevasta la cap de niste blana 'de marca '.
si uite asa s-a inventat wrestling-ul si traficul la siteurile lui jet li.
Versiune completa:O Lectie De La Bosimani
Sea Gypsies, un trib de vanatori culegatori. De fapt pescari.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/07/s...tanzania_a.html
A se vedea ce dinti au. Vanatorii culegatorii nu aveau problemele de sanatate pe care le au oamenii "civilizati", sedentari, traind in orasele lor otravitoare si care mananca gunoaie (mai nou cu multe chimicale).
De asemenea - tribul asta nu are in vocabular cuvantul "want" - "doresc". Vedeti postul de mai sus.
http://www.primitivism.com/loss-of-health.htm
http://www.primitivism.com/health-civilization.htm
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/07/s...tanzania_a.html
A se vedea ce dinti au. Vanatorii culegatorii nu aveau problemele de sanatate pe care le au oamenii "civilizati", sedentari, traind in orasele lor otravitoare si care mananca gunoaie (mai nou cu multe chimicale).
De asemenea - tribul asta nu are in vocabular cuvantul "want" - "doresc". Vedeti postul de mai sus.
QUOTE
Nu mai avea insemnatate daca eram in anul 1947 al erei noastre sau inainte de era noastra. Traiam, si acest lucru il simteam cu intensitate. Inteleseram ca viata oamenilor fusese plina si inaintea erei tehnice, fara indoiala mai plina si mai bogata in multe privinte decat viata omului modern. Timpul si evolutia incetau oarecum sa mai existe : tot ce era real si tot ce avea importanta era astazi la fel ca ieri, la fel ca maine. Eram inghititi de masura absoluta a istoriei, de bezna adanca si neantrerupta de sub puzderia de stele.
Thor Heyerdahl - Kon Tiki
Thor Heyerdahl - Kon Tiki
http://www.primitivism.com/loss-of-health.htm
QUOTE
Exposure to pesticides and metals in water, food, and air can permanently disrupt nervous system functioning and cause brain damage.6 Pesticide exposure is linked to hypertension,7 Parkinson's disease,8 epilepsy,9 and cardiovascular disorders. It can induce allergic sensitivities11 and possibly liver disease.'2 The common apple-preserving chemical daminozide, if ingested over a lifetime, can cause cancer.13 The pesticides captan, chlorothalonil, permethrin, acephate, parathion, dieldrin, methomyl, and folpet~etected by the Food and Drug Administration in apples, carrots, cauliflower, cherries, grapes, and peaches-are also carcinogenic. 14
Dioxins, the herbicides known for their use in Vietnam, are also used in the United States on farms, national forests, urban parks, and lawns. They can be a potent immunosuppressant, leaving the body open to secondary infections, allergies, and autoimmune disease,15 and a study reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association links use of dioxin by Kansas farmers with an eight-fold increase in non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.16
Industrial solvents are also extremely health-threatening. Chemicals like trichloroethylene, perchloroethylene, and l,2-transdichloro-ethylene are found in electronics plants and dry cleaning factories, as well as in the water supplies of industrial communities like Woburn, Massachusetts. They can cause recurrent infections, immunologic deterioration, leukemia,'1 and neurological disorders that can result in panic attacks, personality imbalances, and spinal cord lesions. 18 Health studies of Woburn residents over a fifteen-year period after documented exposure to trichloroethylene, dichloroethy-lene, tetrachloroethylene, and trichioroethane show a twofold and threefold increase in birth defects and infant deaths.
Dioxins, the herbicides known for their use in Vietnam, are also used in the United States on farms, national forests, urban parks, and lawns. They can be a potent immunosuppressant, leaving the body open to secondary infections, allergies, and autoimmune disease,15 and a study reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association links use of dioxin by Kansas farmers with an eight-fold increase in non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.16
Industrial solvents are also extremely health-threatening. Chemicals like trichloroethylene, perchloroethylene, and l,2-transdichloro-ethylene are found in electronics plants and dry cleaning factories, as well as in the water supplies of industrial communities like Woburn, Massachusetts. They can cause recurrent infections, immunologic deterioration, leukemia,'1 and neurological disorders that can result in panic attacks, personality imbalances, and spinal cord lesions. 18 Health studies of Woburn residents over a fifteen-year period after documented exposure to trichloroethylene, dichloroethy-lene, tetrachloroethylene, and trichioroethane show a twofold and threefold increase in birth defects and infant deaths.
http://www.primitivism.com/health-civilization.htm
QUOTE
Even the poorest recorded hunter-gatherer group enjoys a caloric intake superior to that of impoverished contemporary urban populations. Prehistoric hunter-gatherers appear to have enjoyed richer environments and to have been better nourished than most subsequent populations (primitive and civilized alike). Whenever we can glimpse the remains of anatomically modern human beings who lived in early prehistoric environments still rich in large game, they are often relatively large people displaying comparatively few signs of qualitative malnutrition. The subsequent trend in human size and stature is irregular but is more often downward than upward in most parts of the world until the nineteenth or twentieth century.
The diets of hunter-gatherers appear to be comparatively well balanced, even when they are lean. Ethnographic accounts of contemporary groups suggest that protein intakes are commonly quite high, comparable to those of affluent modern groups and substantially above world averages. Protein deficiency is almost unknown in these groups, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies are rare and usually mild in comparison to rates reported from many Third World populations. Archaeological evidence suggests that specific deficiencies, including that of iron (anemia), vitamin D (rickets), and, more controversially, vitamin C (scurvy) as well as such general signs of protein calorie malnutrition as childhood growth retardation have generally become more common in history rather than declining.
Among farmers, increasing population required more and more frequent cropping of land and the use of more and more marginal soils, both of which further diminished returns for labor. This trend may or may not have been offset by such technological improvements in farming as the use of metal tools, specialization of labor, and efficiencies associated with large-scale production that tend to increase individual productivity as well as total production.
But whether the efficiency of farming increased or declined, the nutrition of individuals appears often to have declined for any of several reasons:
The diets of hunter-gatherers appear to be comparatively well balanced, even when they are lean. Ethnographic accounts of contemporary groups suggest that protein intakes are commonly quite high, comparable to those of affluent modern groups and substantially above world averages. Protein deficiency is almost unknown in these groups, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies are rare and usually mild in comparison to rates reported from many Third World populations. Archaeological evidence suggests that specific deficiencies, including that of iron (anemia), vitamin D (rickets), and, more controversially, vitamin C (scurvy) as well as such general signs of protein calorie malnutrition as childhood growth retardation have generally become more common in history rather than declining.
Among farmers, increasing population required more and more frequent cropping of land and the use of more and more marginal soils, both of which further diminished returns for labor. This trend may or may not have been offset by such technological improvements in farming as the use of metal tools, specialization of labor, and efficiencies associated with large-scale production that tend to increase individual productivity as well as total production.
But whether the efficiency of farming increased or declined, the nutrition of individuals appears often to have declined for any of several reasons:
ai uitat sa spui ca le place whiskey....
O, da, ce liric era bietul Heyerdahl ... dar ai uitat să precizezi cam cum racţuionau cei 5 de pe plută în ultimele zile ale călătoriei lor ... ceva de genul Paştele mă-sii de viaţă, cine m-a pus să mă îmbarc în expediţia Kon-Tiki ... nu mai ajungem odată ...
Şi la sfîrşit: Yeeee, Rarotonga! Vivat!!!!
Dar mă rog, presupun că tu nu ai citit efectiv jurnalul lui Heyerdahl, ci doar ai găsit citatul ăla pe undeva, postat de cine ştie ce exaltat.
Şi la sfîrşit: Yeeee, Rarotonga! Vivat!!!!
Dar mă rog, presupun că tu nu ai citit efectiv jurnalul lui Heyerdahl, ci doar ai găsit citatul ăla pe undeva, postat de cine ştie ce exaltat.
QUOTE(March @ 29 Jul 2009, 01:34 PM) 
ai uitat sa spui ca le place whiskey....
sau poate nu prea au ce mînca ... şi atunci cum să-şi distrugă dinţii?
Viata unui trib nu inseamna ca se dau toata ziua cu pluta. In ultimele zile normal ca ai probleme dupa asa o calatorie, era si furtuna am inteles. Citatul e din carte.
Pentru ca avea Heyerdahl probleme, gata viata triburilor era grea. De aia fugeau colonistii Americani din civilizatie si mergeau sa traiasca in trib. Si nu e vorba de reantoarcerea la natura, e vorba de organizare.
Pentru ca avea Heyerdahl probleme, gata viata triburilor era grea. De aia fugeau colonistii Americani din civilizatie si mergeau sa traiasca in trib. Si nu e vorba de reantoarcerea la natura, e vorba de organizare.
Eu doar am subliniat că citatul e scos din context.
QUOTE(March @ 29 Jul 2009, 12:34 PM)
ai uitat sa spui ca le place whiskey....
Pai oricarui mariner ii place. Pun pariu si lui jet li ii place
QUOTE(jet li @ 29 Jul 2009, 02:00 PM)
Viata unui trib ...
Ce zici, noi avem ceva triburi prin Romanica ? Cu vreo rezervatie asa... mai aparte ?
Da turbo trabant imi place whisky si ce cititi voi aici sunt aberatiile unui betiv 
Gata, plecati, inapoi la lucrurile voastre "serioase".
The Sioux
Are si un capitol "Fun", despre jocurile Sioux. Asta daca va inchipuiati viata vanatorilor culegatori un fel de Auschwitz cu indieni morti de foame abia asteptand un stapan sa-i puna la munca, sa fie sclavi dar sa aiba mamaliga in fiecare zi. Fata de iobagii nostri astia erau regi. Si fata de noi care consideram normal sa ne vindem pe bani cea mai mare parte a vietii . Spalati pe creier ca "altfel nu se poate, asa e natura noastra , suntem oameni rai". De fapt "altii e rai" intotdeauna. Care or fi aia... "Ca eu e om bun, da astia nu ma lasa..."Cititi si despre "economia lor".
Gata, plecati, inapoi la lucrurile voastre "serioase".The Sioux
Are si un capitol "Fun", despre jocurile Sioux. Asta daca va inchipuiati viata vanatorilor culegatori un fel de Auschwitz cu indieni morti de foame abia asteptand un stapan sa-i puna la munca, sa fie sclavi dar sa aiba mamaliga in fiecare zi. Fata de iobagii nostri astia erau regi. Si fata de noi care consideram normal sa ne vindem pe bani cea mai mare parte a vietii . Spalati pe creier ca "altfel nu se poate, asa e natura noastra , suntem oameni rai". De fapt "altii e rai" intotdeauna. Care or fi aia... "Ca eu e om bun, da astia nu ma lasa..."Cititi si despre "economia lor".
QUOTE(jet li @ 30 Jul 2009, 01:49 PM)
Da turbo trabant imi place whisky si ce cititi voi aici sunt aberatiile unui betiv
nu m-am referit ca esti betiv ci esti om dar visichiul nu se face in trib , iti trebuie "cazanale" sa il faci deci organizare.
@march: avem rezervatie, au si cazinouri pe persoana fizica care este .
PS: personal prefer berea care trebuie sa fie ca si soacra: cu spume, rece si pe masa
QUOTE(jet li @ 30 Jul 2009, 02:49 PM)
Gata, plecati, inapoi la lucrurile voastre "serioase".
Pai , ce, whiskey si cazinourile din rezervatii nu-i ceva serios ? Totu-i free tax acolo
"Sau, la urmă, purtarea lor se putea dovedi a fi fost doar o glumă ciudată, căci acei oameni timizi nu se temeau de noi cîtusi de putin. Băstinasii au, în mult mai mică măsură decît oamenii albi, acel simt al riscului în viată. Cîteodată la un safari, sau pe lîngă fermă, în vreun moment de tensiune extremă, am întîlnit privirea însotitorilor mei si am simtit că ne aflam la mare depărtare unii de altii si că erau mirati din cale-afară de acea teamă a mea în fata riscului. Ceea ce m-a făcut să reflectez la faptul că se miscau în viată cum nu vom reusi noi niciodată, ca in elementul lor, întocmai ca pestii de ape adînci care nu pot pricepe de ce ne temem noi de înec. Această sigurantă, această artă de a înota ei o aveau, mi-am zis, pentru că păstrează stiința pierdută pentru noi de părintii nostri ;Africa, dintre toate continentele, te învată că Dumnezeu si Diavolul una sunt, o maiestate co-eternă, nu două ne-născute, ci o singura nenascuta, iar băstinasii nici nu confundau cele două persoane, nici nu divizau substanta lor."
-------------
"Cînd băstinasii se simteau în sigurantă din partea noastră că nu vom face miscări bruste sau zgomote neasteptate, ne vorbeau cu mult mai deschis decît vorbesc de obicei un european cu alt european. Nu erau niciodată de încredere, dar în general erau sinceri. Un nume bun ceea ce noi am numi prestigiu contează foarte mult la băatinasi,într-un anumit moment păreau să-ti fi făcut o apreciere-globală, de care nimeni nu se rnai atingea pe urmă. Cîteodată la fermă existenta era solitară si, în linistea serilor, cînd minutele picurau din ceas, viata părea să picure si ea din tine odată cu ele, de dorul unui alb cucare să vorbesti. Simteam însă tot timpul în penumbră existența tăcută a băstinasilor paralelă cu a mea, dar într-un plan diferit. Numai ecouri răzbăteau dintr-o parte în alta.Băstinasii însemnau Africa în carne si oase. Inaltul vulcan stins Longonat, ce se ridică deasupra Văii Faliei celei Mari, arborii de mimoza străjuind rîurile largi, sau elefantul si girafa nu însemnau Africa mai cu adevărat decît băstinasii negri siluete mărunte într-un decor imens. "Toti erau expresii- diferite ale aceleiasi idei, toti erau variatiuni pe aceeasi temă.
In Inima Africii - Karen Blixen
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2517055/Karen-Bl...n-inima-Africii
-------------
"Cînd băstinasii se simteau în sigurantă din partea noastră că nu vom face miscări bruste sau zgomote neasteptate, ne vorbeau cu mult mai deschis decît vorbesc de obicei un european cu alt european. Nu erau niciodată de încredere, dar în general erau sinceri. Un nume bun ceea ce noi am numi prestigiu contează foarte mult la băatinasi,într-un anumit moment păreau să-ti fi făcut o apreciere-globală, de care nimeni nu se rnai atingea pe urmă. Cîteodată la fermă existenta era solitară si, în linistea serilor, cînd minutele picurau din ceas, viata părea să picure si ea din tine odată cu ele, de dorul unui alb cucare să vorbesti. Simteam însă tot timpul în penumbră existența tăcută a băstinasilor paralelă cu a mea, dar într-un plan diferit. Numai ecouri răzbăteau dintr-o parte în alta.Băstinasii însemnau Africa în carne si oase. Inaltul vulcan stins Longonat, ce se ridică deasupra Văii Faliei celei Mari, arborii de mimoza străjuind rîurile largi, sau elefantul si girafa nu însemnau Africa mai cu adevărat decît băstinasii negri siluete mărunte într-un decor imens. "Toti erau expresii- diferite ale aceleiasi idei, toti erau variatiuni pe aceeasi temă.
In Inima Africii - Karen Blixen
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2517055/Karen-Bl...n-inima-Africii
Scriu singur pe aici, ori am dreptate si nu mai zice nimeni nimic, ori am innebunit si la fel nu mai zice nimeni nimic
Unii spun : sa fii rau, sa te bati cu altii, sa minti, sa furi, sa fii viclean : trasaturi esentiale pe care omul "primitiv" si le-a format in "lupta pentru supravietuire". Gresit spun eu, pentru supravietuire - si o viata usoara si prin natura lor - oamenii traiau in triburi, grupuri. La fel de natural cum alte animale traiesc in grup. Nu poti fi intr-un trib avand acele trasaturi. Cea mai mare pedeapsa la ei era exilul. Singur e mai greu. Tocmai acele trasaturi - lucreaza impotriva omului. Deci nu pot fi formate "prin evolutie".
Tribul e o forma aparuta si perfectionata in milioane de ani - oamenii cautand intotdeauna fericirea, nu e ceva impus.
"Cea mai veche profesie din lume" - prostitutia. Sa-mi arate desteptu care a zis asta, un trib unde se intampla asa ceva. In cele mai multe triburi femeia detine cortul si in caz de "divort" barbatu e dat afara din cort. Nu e compatibila demnitatea unui razboinic cu ideea de a conditiona hrana - unui alt membru din acelasi trib, in orice fel. Oamenii din triburi se feresc cel mai mult - sa spuna altuia ce sa faca. Sa dea ordine. Era un lucru foarte nesimtit in viziunea lor.
De unde vin ideile astea cu "omu pesterii, da cu bata, bataie pe femei si friptura !". Pai daca era asa - intr- singura luna tribul disparea si ii mancau lupii pe toti. Nu mai aveau timp sa deseneze ce au desenat ei prin pesteri. Sau poate in imaginatia distrusa a cui si-a imaginat asa ceva : ala care era mai mare ii subjuga pe toti. Probabil cu ajutorul altora ca el ? Sigur ca da. Sa zicem ca printr-o minune asemenea oameni rai - prin natura lor, care ar fi uitat tot ce au invatat in trib de mici, care si-au uitat prietenii si rudele - apar brusc si ii "subjuga pe restul". Cat poate sa dureze ? Restul fug, se muta. Cei ramasi - formeaza un trib - si intre ei sunt aceleasi relatii de prietenie ! Nu poti avea nici macar o banda de talhari daca astia se omoara intre ei. Tribul si relatiile de prietenie, respect, incredere, gift economy - apar natural pentru un grup de oameni liberi.
Piratii:
Piracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Unii spun : sa fii rau, sa te bati cu altii, sa minti, sa furi, sa fii viclean : trasaturi esentiale pe care omul "primitiv" si le-a format in "lupta pentru supravietuire". Gresit spun eu, pentru supravietuire - si o viata usoara si prin natura lor - oamenii traiau in triburi, grupuri. La fel de natural cum alte animale traiesc in grup. Nu poti fi intr-un trib avand acele trasaturi. Cea mai mare pedeapsa la ei era exilul. Singur e mai greu. Tocmai acele trasaturi - lucreaza impotriva omului. Deci nu pot fi formate "prin evolutie".
Tribul e o forma aparuta si perfectionata in milioane de ani - oamenii cautand intotdeauna fericirea, nu e ceva impus.
"Cea mai veche profesie din lume" - prostitutia. Sa-mi arate desteptu care a zis asta, un trib unde se intampla asa ceva. In cele mai multe triburi femeia detine cortul si in caz de "divort" barbatu e dat afara din cort. Nu e compatibila demnitatea unui razboinic cu ideea de a conditiona hrana - unui alt membru din acelasi trib, in orice fel. Oamenii din triburi se feresc cel mai mult - sa spuna altuia ce sa faca. Sa dea ordine. Era un lucru foarte nesimtit in viziunea lor.
De unde vin ideile astea cu "omu pesterii, da cu bata, bataie pe femei si friptura !". Pai daca era asa - intr- singura luna tribul disparea si ii mancau lupii pe toti. Nu mai aveau timp sa deseneze ce au desenat ei prin pesteri. Sau poate in imaginatia distrusa a cui si-a imaginat asa ceva : ala care era mai mare ii subjuga pe toti. Probabil cu ajutorul altora ca el ? Sigur ca da. Sa zicem ca printr-o minune asemenea oameni rai - prin natura lor, care ar fi uitat tot ce au invatat in trib de mici, care si-au uitat prietenii si rudele - apar brusc si ii "subjuga pe restul". Cat poate sa dureze ? Restul fug, se muta. Cei ramasi - formeaza un trib - si intre ei sunt aceleasi relatii de prietenie ! Nu poti avea nici macar o banda de talhari daca astia se omoara intre ei. Tribul si relatiile de prietenie, respect, incredere, gift economy - apar natural pentru un grup de oameni liberi.
Piratii:
Piracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Invataturi de la tribul piticilor din China.
http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?...mp;in_page_id=2
Au reusit sa creeze un "noi". De fapt sa permita manifestarea acestui "noi". Care apare peste tot dar e imediat distrus de sistem.
http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?...mp;in_page_id=2
QUOTE
As small people we are used to being pushed around and exploited by big people. But here there aren't any big people and everything we do is for us,' said spokesman Fu Tien.
Au reusit sa creeze un "noi". De fapt sa permita manifestarea acestui "noi". Care apare peste tot dar e imediat distrus de sistem.
Your eyes will see what you want to see...Sistemul este o piedica..atat timp cat crezi asta. "Noi" se manifesta si exista oricum, dar nu intotdeauna vedem asta. Iar daca se vede separare in loc de unitate, poate ca cel care percepe se separa el insusi de ceea ce vede... Se vad probleme in afara deoarece ele exista inauntru. Cand se constientizeaza ce e inauntru, lumea de afara nu mai este problematica...si dispare notiunea interior-exterior.
Nu conteaza ca eu vad "unitatea". Sistemul nu e ceva inert. Sistemul influenteaza oamenii care se nasc in el - care la randul lor continua acest sistem. Nu e doar : "oamenii e rai, asta e". Trebuie sa vada cum sunt influentati si ca exista si alte moduri. Multi nu au nici o idee. Stiu doar "in trecut oamenii traiau foarte greu, noi am evoluat". Daa, asa de rau traiau si asa de urat se purtau unii cu altii incat unii colonisti americani odata capturati de "salbatici" preferau sa renunte la propriile familii decat sa revina la "civilizatie".
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2009/08/prisoner-exchange.html
Sau sa zic "eu vad unitatea, ce frumos, restul poate se trezesc ei sau poate nu, ce conteaza". Nu exista "eu". Uite din cauza asta conteaza :
http://www.zoriah.net/blog/2009/04/guest-p...hild-labor.html
Astia sunt doar cativa din miliardele prinsi in sistem. Care apoi - necunoscand altceva - vor continua in acelasi mod. Nu se poate spune "sunt rai, se trezesc ei vreodata". Sistemul ii modifica.
http://www.amazon.com/Columbus-Other-Canni...0736&sr=1-1
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2009/08/prisoner-exchange.html
Sau sa zic "eu vad unitatea, ce frumos, restul poate se trezesc ei sau poate nu, ce conteaza". Nu exista "eu". Uite din cauza asta conteaza :
http://www.zoriah.net/blog/2009/04/guest-p...hild-labor.html
Astia sunt doar cativa din miliardele prinsi in sistem. Care apoi - necunoscand altceva - vor continua in acelasi mod. Nu se poate spune "sunt rai, se trezesc ei vreodata". Sistemul ii modifica.
http://www.amazon.com/Columbus-Other-Canni...0736&sr=1-1
QUOTE
It's an inherited twisted perspective on life, and feeling about life.. The bestowers for the last 500 years of the Wetiko disease have come from the European culture, although he mentions that many cultures through out history have endulged in Wetiko behavior, from Egypt, to Rome, to Russia, China. He's also mentioned that the once oppressed may carry on this mentality, this lunacy to a higher degree sometimes then the original oppressors/ colonizers.
Indienii si sanatatea
"Sickness comes with you (the white man) and hundreds of us die. Where is our strength? ... In the old times we were strong. We used to hunt and fish. We raised our little crop of corn and melons and ate the mesquite beans. Now all is changed. We eat the white man's food, and it makes us soft; we wear the white man's heavy clothing and it makes us weak. Each day in the old times in summer and in winter we came down to the river banks to bathe. This strengthened and toughened our firm skin. But white settler were shocked to see the naked Indians, so now we keep away. In old days we wore the breechcloth, and aprons made of barks and reeds. We worked all winter in the wind - bare arms, bare legs, and never felt the cold. But now, when the wind blows down from the mountains it makes us cough. Yes - we know that when you come, we die."
- Chiparopai an old Yuma Indian, gives her views of the changes that confronted her at the beginning of the twentieth century.
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Indienii si scoala
After the principal business was settled, the commissioners from Virginia acquainted the Indians by a speech, that there was at Williamsburg a college, with a fund for educating Indian youth; and that, if the Six Nations would send down half a dozen of their young lads to that college, the government would take care that they should be well provided for, and instructed in all the learning of the white people.
It is one of the Indian rules of politeness not to answer a public proposition the same day that it is made; they think it would be treating it as a light matter, and that they show it respect by taking time to consider it, as of a matter important. They therefore deferred their answer till the day following; when their speaker began, by expressing their deep sense of the kindness of the Virginia government, in making them that offer; "for we know," says he, "that you highly esteem the kind of learning taught in those Colleges, and that the maintenance of our young men, while with you, would be very expensive to you.
We are convinced, therefore, that you mean to do us good by your proposal; and we thank you heartily. But you, who are wise, must know that different nations have different conceptions of things; and you will therefore not take it amiss, if our ideas of this kind of education happen not to be the same with yours. We have had some experience of it; several of our young people were formerly brought up at the colleges of the northern provinces; they were instructed in all your sciences; but, when they came back to us, they were bad runners, ignorant of every means of living in the woods, unable to bear either cold or hunger, knew neither how to build a cabin, take a deer, or kill an enemy, spoke our language imperfectly, were therefore neither fit for hunters, warriors, nor counselors; they were totally good for nothing. We are however not the less obliged by your kind offer, though we decline accepting it; and, to show our grateful sense of it, if the gentlemen of Virginia will send us a dozen of their sons, we will take great care of their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them. "
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Indienii si popa
The politeness of these savages in conversation is indeed carried to excess, since it does not permit them to contradict or deny the truth of what is asserted in their presence. By this. means they indeed avoid disputes; but then it becomes difficult to know their minds, or what impression you make upon them. The missionaries who have attempted to convert them to Christianity all complain of this as one of the great difficulties of their mission. The Indians hear with patience the truths of the Gospel explained to them, and give their usual tokens of assent and approbation; you would think they were convinced. No such matter. It is mere civility.
A Swedish minister, having assembled the chiefs of the Susquehanah Indians, made a sermon to them, acquainting them with the principal historical facts on which our religion is founded; such as the fall of our first parents by eating an apple, the coming of Christ to repair the mischief, His miracles and suffering, etc. When he had finished, an Indian orator stood up to thank him.
"What you have told us," he says, "is all very good. It is indeed bad to eat apples. It is better to make them all into cider. We are much obliged by your kindness in coming so far, to tell us these things which you have heard from your mothers. In return, I will tell you some of those we have heard from ours. In the beginning, our fathers had only the flesh of animals to subsist on; and if their hunting was unsuccessful, they were starving. Two of our young hunters, having killed a deer, made a fire in the woods to broil some part of it.
"When they were about to satisfy their hunger, they beheld a beautiful young woman descend from the clouds, and seat herself on that hill, which you see yonder among the blue mountains. They said to each other, it is a spirit that has smelled our broiling venison, and wishes to eat of it; let us offer some to her. They presented her with the tongue; she was pleased with the taste of it and said, 'Your kindness shall be rewarded; come to this place after thirteen moons, and you shall find something that will be of great benefit in nourishing you and your children to the latest generations.' They did so, and, to their surprise, found plants they had never seen before; but which, from that ancient time, have been constantly cultivated among us, to our great advantage. Where her right hand had touched the ground, they found maize; where her left hand had touched it, they found kidney beans; and where her backside had sat on it, they found tobacco."
The good missionary, disgusted with this idle tale, said, "What I delivered to you were sacred truths, but what you tell me is mere fable, fiction, and falsehood."
The Indian, offended, replied, "My brother, it seems your friends have not done you justice in your education; they have not well instructed you in the rules of common civility. You saw that we, who understand and practice those rules, believed all your stories; why do you refuse to believe ours?"
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"Politica" la indieni
He that would speak, rises. The rest observe a profound silence. When he has finished and sits down, they leave him five or six minutes to recollect, that if he has omitted anything he intended to say or has anything to add, he may rise again and deliver it. To interrupt another, even in common conversation, is reckoned highly indecent.
How different it is from the conduct of a polite British House of Commons, where scarce a day passes without some confusion that makes the Speaker hoarse in calling to order; and how different from the mode of conversation in many polite companies of Europe, where if you do not deliver your sentence with great rapidity, you are cut off in the middle of it by the impatient loquacity of those you converse with and never allowed to finish it.
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De aici Benjamin Franklin: Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America
"Sickness comes with you (the white man) and hundreds of us die. Where is our strength? ... In the old times we were strong. We used to hunt and fish. We raised our little crop of corn and melons and ate the mesquite beans. Now all is changed. We eat the white man's food, and it makes us soft; we wear the white man's heavy clothing and it makes us weak. Each day in the old times in summer and in winter we came down to the river banks to bathe. This strengthened and toughened our firm skin. But white settler were shocked to see the naked Indians, so now we keep away. In old days we wore the breechcloth, and aprons made of barks and reeds. We worked all winter in the wind - bare arms, bare legs, and never felt the cold. But now, when the wind blows down from the mountains it makes us cough. Yes - we know that when you come, we die."
- Chiparopai an old Yuma Indian, gives her views of the changes that confronted her at the beginning of the twentieth century.
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Indienii si scoala
After the principal business was settled, the commissioners from Virginia acquainted the Indians by a speech, that there was at Williamsburg a college, with a fund for educating Indian youth; and that, if the Six Nations would send down half a dozen of their young lads to that college, the government would take care that they should be well provided for, and instructed in all the learning of the white people.
It is one of the Indian rules of politeness not to answer a public proposition the same day that it is made; they think it would be treating it as a light matter, and that they show it respect by taking time to consider it, as of a matter important. They therefore deferred their answer till the day following; when their speaker began, by expressing their deep sense of the kindness of the Virginia government, in making them that offer; "for we know," says he, "that you highly esteem the kind of learning taught in those Colleges, and that the maintenance of our young men, while with you, would be very expensive to you.
We are convinced, therefore, that you mean to do us good by your proposal; and we thank you heartily. But you, who are wise, must know that different nations have different conceptions of things; and you will therefore not take it amiss, if our ideas of this kind of education happen not to be the same with yours. We have had some experience of it; several of our young people were formerly brought up at the colleges of the northern provinces; they were instructed in all your sciences; but, when they came back to us, they were bad runners, ignorant of every means of living in the woods, unable to bear either cold or hunger, knew neither how to build a cabin, take a deer, or kill an enemy, spoke our language imperfectly, were therefore neither fit for hunters, warriors, nor counselors; they were totally good for nothing. We are however not the less obliged by your kind offer, though we decline accepting it; and, to show our grateful sense of it, if the gentlemen of Virginia will send us a dozen of their sons, we will take great care of their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them. "
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Indienii si popa
The politeness of these savages in conversation is indeed carried to excess, since it does not permit them to contradict or deny the truth of what is asserted in their presence. By this. means they indeed avoid disputes; but then it becomes difficult to know their minds, or what impression you make upon them. The missionaries who have attempted to convert them to Christianity all complain of this as one of the great difficulties of their mission. The Indians hear with patience the truths of the Gospel explained to them, and give their usual tokens of assent and approbation; you would think they were convinced. No such matter. It is mere civility.
A Swedish minister, having assembled the chiefs of the Susquehanah Indians, made a sermon to them, acquainting them with the principal historical facts on which our religion is founded; such as the fall of our first parents by eating an apple, the coming of Christ to repair the mischief, His miracles and suffering, etc. When he had finished, an Indian orator stood up to thank him.
"What you have told us," he says, "is all very good. It is indeed bad to eat apples. It is better to make them all into cider. We are much obliged by your kindness in coming so far, to tell us these things which you have heard from your mothers. In return, I will tell you some of those we have heard from ours. In the beginning, our fathers had only the flesh of animals to subsist on; and if their hunting was unsuccessful, they were starving. Two of our young hunters, having killed a deer, made a fire in the woods to broil some part of it.
"When they were about to satisfy their hunger, they beheld a beautiful young woman descend from the clouds, and seat herself on that hill, which you see yonder among the blue mountains. They said to each other, it is a spirit that has smelled our broiling venison, and wishes to eat of it; let us offer some to her. They presented her with the tongue; she was pleased with the taste of it and said, 'Your kindness shall be rewarded; come to this place after thirteen moons, and you shall find something that will be of great benefit in nourishing you and your children to the latest generations.' They did so, and, to their surprise, found plants they had never seen before; but which, from that ancient time, have been constantly cultivated among us, to our great advantage. Where her right hand had touched the ground, they found maize; where her left hand had touched it, they found kidney beans; and where her backside had sat on it, they found tobacco."
The good missionary, disgusted with this idle tale, said, "What I delivered to you were sacred truths, but what you tell me is mere fable, fiction, and falsehood."
The Indian, offended, replied, "My brother, it seems your friends have not done you justice in your education; they have not well instructed you in the rules of common civility. You saw that we, who understand and practice those rules, believed all your stories; why do you refuse to believe ours?"
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"Politica" la indieni
He that would speak, rises. The rest observe a profound silence. When he has finished and sits down, they leave him five or six minutes to recollect, that if he has omitted anything he intended to say or has anything to add, he may rise again and deliver it. To interrupt another, even in common conversation, is reckoned highly indecent.
How different it is from the conduct of a polite British House of Commons, where scarce a day passes without some confusion that makes the Speaker hoarse in calling to order; and how different from the mode of conversation in many polite companies of Europe, where if you do not deliver your sentence with great rapidity, you are cut off in the middle of it by the impatient loquacity of those you converse with and never allowed to finish it.
-------------
De aici Benjamin Franklin: Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America
Ce-ar fi s-o scrii pe româneste, ca doar nu suntem undeva în North-Dakota.
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-...liberia-1-of-8#
Na, uite aici... e clar ca ne sunt superiori...
Na, uite aici... e clar ca ne sunt superiori...
QUOTE(Blakut @ 29 Jan 2010, 09:18 PM)
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/the-vice-guide-to-...liberia-1-of-8#
Na, uite aici... e clar ca ne sunt superiori...
Na, uite aici... e clar ca ne sunt superiori...
Cla nu pot sa ma apuc sa traduc tot. Blakut, aia nu sunt un trib. Nici "warlorzii" si cei pe care ii comanda nu sunt triburi. Sunt forme ale civilizatiei. Daca ai computere nu inseamna ca esti "civilizat", daca nu ai nimic - Liberia, nu inseamna ca traiesti in trib.
QUOTE
Cla nu pot sa ma apuc sa traduc tot. Blakut, aia nu sunt un trib. Nici "warlorzii" si cei pe care ii comanda nu sunt triburi. Sunt forme ale civilizatiei. Daca ai computere nu inseamna ca esti "civilizat", daca nu ai nimic - Liberia, nu inseamna ca traiesti in trib.
Se macelaresc intre ei pe motiv de triburi. Si brutalitatea lor depaseste orice ar fi facut vreodata nazistii sau comunistii albi/asiatici.
Nu face pe prostu. Ei sunt triburi la fel cum sunt eu roman si sunt suparat pe unguri. Cum ar fi "se bat romanii cu ungurii!!!!". Pot sa spuna ei ca sunt triburi, nu mai sunt de mult.
Multe linkuri interesante: http://fendersen.com/index2.htm
"Sensul" : http://paimei02.blogspot.com/2010/02/sens.html
si miturile din Miami : http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1997-06-05/ne...hs-over-miami/1
"Sensul" : http://paimei02.blogspot.com/2010/02/sens.html
si miturile din Miami : http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1997-06-05/ne...hs-over-miami/1
QUOTE(jet li @ 31 Jan 2010, 03:42 AM)
QUOTE
Ei sunt triburi la fel cum sunt eu roman si sunt suparat pe unguri. Cum ar fi "se bat romanii cu ungurii!!!!".
Pai ar fi cat se poate de nasol, si unii si altii sunt cetateni UE. Diferenta dintre acalmie si pace este foarte mare in ceea cei priveste pe unguri si romani sau pe unguri, romani si tigani. Situatia este ca cea a unui vulcan adormit de sute de ani care poate erupe in orice moment.
QUOTE
Pot sa spuna ei ca sunt triburi, nu mai sunt de mult.
Adica vrei sa zici ca nu mai sunt triburi, au devenit o natiune desi ei nu simt acest lucru?
11.02.2010, 22:18 Uhr von HerrLaus Registrierter Nutzer (Profil ansehen)
Was hast du gegen die FDP? Ich möchte an dieser Stelle die FDP nicht verteidigen,aber glaubst du andere Parteien wären besser?
Ja,
Was hast du gegen die FDP? Ich möchte an dieser Stelle die FDP nicht verteidigen,aber glaubst du andere Parteien wären besser?
Ja,
Jet Li... Cum sa te anunt... As vrea sa-mi fii un prieten, pt ca ne simtim bine la indieni-
Hai sa mergem un pic la ursi. Kodak Island...
Si nu numai asta... hai sa mergem si la Inuit...
Hai sa mergem un pic la ursi. Kodak Island...
Si nu numai asta... hai sa mergem si la Inuit...
cla, nu te astepta la un raspuns. nu esti din casta care trebuie.
am inteles topicul lui jet li vizionand un film de desene animate: Peter Pan. Jet e baiatul-pierdut din gasca lui Pan care nu vrea sa devina adult.
am inteles topicul lui jet li vizionand un film de desene animate: Peter Pan. Jet e baiatul-pierdut din gasca lui Pan care nu vrea sa devina adult.
QUOTE(turbo trabant @ 12 Feb 2010, 04:35 PM)
cla, nu te astepta la un raspuns. nu esti din casta care trebuie.
am inteles topicul lui jet li vizionand un film de desene animate: Peter Pan. Jet e baiatul-pierdut din gasca lui Pan care nu vrea sa devina adult.
am inteles topicul lui jet li vizionand un film de desene animate: Peter Pan. Jet e baiatul-pierdut din gasca lui Pan care nu vrea sa devina adult.
Nu nu, toata societatea - nu vor sa devina adulti. Se joaca de-a economia, alearga dupa jucarii.
Explica asta :
QUOTE
Boredom is so endemic to our culture, particularly among youth, that we imagine it to be a near-universal default state of human existence. In the absence of outside stimuli we are bored. Yet, as Ziauddin Sardar observes, boredom is virtually unique to Western culture (and by extension to the global culture it increasingly dominates). "Bedouins," he writes, "can sit for hours in the desert, feeling the ripples of time, without being bored."[19]
Lumea nu cunostea plictiseala inainte de civilizatie.
Am reusit sa plictisim papagalul :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_%28parrot%29
Ce spune acolo "papagalii la fel ca si copii se plictisesc". Ce gluma. Copii nu se plictisesc niciodata, pana cand nu apare masina, scoala, civilizatia. Nu e vorba de efortul fizic - pe care il fac cu placere - cand fac ce le place. Orice ar fi. Daca vii insa cu lucruri plictisitoare cum ar fi statul in banca 4 ani - sa invete sa citeasca si sa numere..... ce sa mai zici.
Flipper s-a sinucis : http://paimei02.blogspot.com/2010/02/flipper-s-sinucis.html
Un delfin luat din ocean, unde are obiceiul sa se plimbe 50 km pe zi, normal ca se plictiseste.
"Ce frumos e de Craciun, se aduna toata familia, facem masa mare, oamenii sunt mai buni" etc...
Oricui spune asta - eu ii spun ca odata ca niciodata, peste sapte mari si sapte tari, traiau niste oameni - pentru care fiecare zi era ca ziua de Craciun pentru noi. Da, fiecare zi. Inclusiv partea cu "oamenii sunt mai buni".
Oamenii astia nu aveau nici bani, nici slujbe, nici "economie". Nici litere nu aveau. Cu toate astea nu aveau nici copii orfani, nici "oamenii strazii". Si sarbatoreau - ce voiau ei, in fiecare zi. Aveau timp.
Dar am venit "noi" si i-am ucis, sau i-am trimis in mijlocul pustiului. "Noi" cei care avem 1 zi pe an cu "Craciun". Ne mai si uitam atent in calendar "cade in weekend, nu prindem zi libera"...
Colonistii care nu s-au mai intors. Ce-or fi gasit ?...
Oricui spune asta - eu ii spun ca odata ca niciodata, peste sapte mari si sapte tari, traiau niste oameni - pentru care fiecare zi era ca ziua de Craciun pentru noi. Da, fiecare zi. Inclusiv partea cu "oamenii sunt mai buni".
Oamenii astia nu aveau nici bani, nici slujbe, nici "economie". Nici litere nu aveau. Cu toate astea nu aveau nici copii orfani, nici "oamenii strazii". Si sarbatoreau - ce voiau ei, in fiecare zi. Aveau timp.
Dar am venit "noi" si i-am ucis, sau i-am trimis in mijlocul pustiului. "Noi" cei care avem 1 zi pe an cu "Craciun". Ne mai si uitam atent in calendar "cade in weekend, nu prindem zi libera"...
Colonistii care nu s-au mai intors. Ce-or fi gasit ?...
QUOTE(jet li @ 26 Dec 2010, 02:01 PM)
se aduna toata familia, facem masa mare
nu ti-au priit sarmalele de la mama soacra de esti suparat pe Craciun?
QUOTE(jet li @ 24 Sep 2009, 11:05 AM)
Scriu singur pe aici, ori am dreptate si nu mai zice nimeni nimic, ori am innebunit si la fel nu mai zice nimeni nimic
Da-ne tu dezlegarea saradei asteia . Dupa care am sa-ti pot sugera ce sa faci mai departe aici
Un filmulet care ar putea fi pe gustul lui jet li. E vorba de povestea unui batranel simpatic care de o buna bucata de vreme traieste in munti in niste conditii destul de ostile. Cu toate astea pare fericit.
de fapt, cred că e dovedit că fericirea n-are legătură cu starea materială sau condiţiile dificile de trai. Poţi fi mult mai fericit în vârf de munte dacă rezonezi cu acel mediu, sau poţi fi fericit făcând parte dintr-o mare de oameni dintr-un oraş-furnicar, dacă eşti o fire sociabilă.
nu spun că civilizaţia înseamnă o greşeală, dar întoarcerea la natură şi la o viaţă echilibrată este necesară. Din păcate suntem prea mulţi acum ca să rămână loc şi timp pentru fiecare, a trăi în armonie cu natura a devenit un lux pentru cei mai mulţi oameni...
nu spun că civilizaţia înseamnă o greşeală, dar întoarcerea la natură şi la o viaţă echilibrată este necesară. Din păcate suntem prea mulţi acum ca să rămână loc şi timp pentru fiecare, a trăi în armonie cu natura a devenit un lux pentru cei mai mulţi oameni...
Corect, Erwin. Sunt convins ca viata e plina de satisfactii si pentru niste aborigeni din Papua Noua Guinee sau pentru niste bosimani din desertul Kalahari. Sincer, si eu de la o vreme am inceput sa simt ca traiesc cu adevarat doar atunci cand sunt in natura. Nu cred ca trebuie sa fi nici tehnofob si nici mizantrop pentru a te simti stingher in jungla de beton, cum ii spun unii. Pur si simplu artificialul asta cred ca isi pune amprenta intr-o masura ceva mai mare in cazul unora. Nu stiu daca e vorba aici de persoane mai putin adaptabile. Se poate. Cu toate astea, este bine stiut faptul ca noi ca specie am evoluat intr-un cu totul si cu totul alt mediu decat cel in care ne ducem existenta in prezent. Cred ca de aici ni se trag multe probleme (afectiuni de tot felul, probleme psihice, comportamente deviante, etc.).
mda 
Thor Heyerdahl
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/..._heyerdahl.html
QUOTE
"I have never been able to grasp the meaning of time. I don't believe it exists. I've felt this again and again, when alone and out in nature. On such occasions, time does not exist. Nor does the future exist."
"It is also rarer to find happiness in a man surrounded by the miracles of technology than among people living in the desert of the jungle and who by the standards set by our society would be considered destitute and out of touch."
"One learns more from listening than speaking.And both the wind and the people who continue to live close to nature still have much to tell us which we cannot hear within university walls."
"Progress is man's ability to complicate simplicity."
"It is also rarer to find happiness in a man surrounded by the miracles of technology than among people living in the desert of the jungle and who by the standards set by our society would be considered destitute and out of touch."
"One learns more from listening than speaking.And both the wind and the people who continue to live close to nature still have much to tell us which we cannot hear within university walls."
"Progress is man's ability to complicate simplicity."
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/..._heyerdahl.html
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