Jamestown itself was set up inside the territory of an Indian confederacy, led by the chief, Powhatan. Powhatan watched the English settle on his people's land, but did not attack, maintaining a posture of coolness. When the English were going through their "starving time" in the winter of 1610, some of them ran off to join the Indians, where they would at least be fed. When the summer came, the governor of the colony sent a messenger to ask Powhatan to return the runaways, whereupon Powhatan, according to the English account, replied with "noe other than prowde and disdaynefull Answers." Some soldiers were therefore sent out "to take Revenge." They fell upon an Indian settlement, killed fifteen or sixteen Indians, burned the houses, cut down the corn growing around the village, took the queen of the tribe and her children into boats, then ended up throwing the children overboard "and shoteinge owit their Braynes in the water." The queen was later taken off and stabbed to death.
Twelve years later, the Indians, alarmed as the English settlements kept growing in numbers, apparently decided to try to wipe them out for good. They went on a rampage and massacred 347 men, women, and children. From then on it was total war.
Not able to enslave the Indians, and not able to live with them, the English decided to exterminate them. Edmund Morgan writes, in his history of early Virginia, American Slavery, American Freedom:
Since the Indians were better woodsmen than the English and virtually impossible to track down, the method was to feign peaceful intentions, let them settle down and plant their com wherever they chose, and then, just before harvest, fall upon them, killing as many as possible and burning the corn... . Within two or three years of the massacre the English had avenged the deaths of that day many times over.
Howard Zinn - A people's history of the United States
Versiune completa:O Lectie De La Bosimani
QUOTE(jet li @ 4 May 2009, 05:35 PM) 
Howard Zinn - A people's history of the United States
Cum ziceam pune mana pe o carte scrisa fara intentii de romantare/innegrire nu pe romane thriller cu senzatii sandrabrowniene socialistico -mistice de pacifisti siguri ca sistemul e putred in timp ce iau royalties la greu
wiki : Writing in the Washington Post Book World, reviewer Michael Kammen, a professor of American History at Cornell, wrote: "I wish that I could pronounce Zinn's book a great success, but it is not. It is a synthesis of the radical and revisionist historiography of the past decade... Not only does the book read like a scissors and paste-pot job, but even less attractive, so much attention to historians, historiography and historical polemic leaves precious little space for the substance of history. ... We do deserve a people's history; but not a singleminded, simpleminded history, too often of fools, knaves and Robin Hoods. We need a judicious people's history because the people are entitled to have their history whole; not just those parts that will anger or embarrass them. ... If that is asking for the moon, then we will cheerfully settle for balanced history."[34]
LE: dude, esti varza. ai dat cu gugal repede si ai gresit colonia, ai ales jamestown in loc de plymouth . colonia asta e aia cu pocahontas
QUOTE
Children in Iroquois society, while taught the cultural heritage of their people and solidarity with the tribe, were also taught to be independent, not to submit to overbearing authority. They were taught equality in status and the sharing of possessions. The Iroquois did not use harsh punishment on children; they did not insist on early weaning or early toilet training, hut gradually allowed the child to learn self-care.
All of this was in sharp contrast to European values as brought over by the first colonists, a society of rich and poor, controlled by priests, by governors, by male heads of families. For example, the pastor of the Pilgrim colony, John Robinson, thus advised his parishioners how to deal with their children: "And surely there is in all children ... a stubbornness, and stoutness of mind arising from natural pride, which must, in the first place, be broken and beaten down; that so the foundation of their education being laid in humility and tractableness, other virtues may, in their time, be built thereon."
Gary Nash describes Iroquois culture:
No laws and ordinances, sheriffs and constables, judges and juries, or courts or jails-the apparatus of authority in European societies-were to be found in the northeast woodlands prior to European arrival. Yet boundaries of acceptable behavior were firmly set. Though priding themselves on the autonomous individual, the Iroquois maintained a strict sense of right and wrong.... He who stole another's food or acted invalourously in war was "shamed" by his people and ostracized from their company until he had atoned for his actions and demonstrated to their satisfaction that he had morally purified himself.
All of this was in sharp contrast to European values as brought over by the first colonists, a society of rich and poor, controlled by priests, by governors, by male heads of families. For example, the pastor of the Pilgrim colony, John Robinson, thus advised his parishioners how to deal with their children: "And surely there is in all children ... a stubbornness, and stoutness of mind arising from natural pride, which must, in the first place, be broken and beaten down; that so the foundation of their education being laid in humility and tractableness, other virtues may, in their time, be built thereon."
Gary Nash describes Iroquois culture:
No laws and ordinances, sheriffs and constables, judges and juries, or courts or jails-the apparatus of authority in European societies-were to be found in the northeast woodlands prior to European arrival. Yet boundaries of acceptable behavior were firmly set. Though priding themselves on the autonomous individual, the Iroquois maintained a strict sense of right and wrong.... He who stole another's food or acted invalourously in war was "shamed" by his people and ostracized from their company until he had atoned for his actions and demonstrated to their satisfaction that he had morally purified himself.
Nu vad nici o problema sa te imbogatesti scriind o carte. Nu poti trai fara bani in sistemul asta. Nu e ca si cum ai fi un patron care isi pune sclavii la munca. Pot gasi si reviewuri pozitive daca vreau.
QUOTE(jet li @ 4 May 2009, 05:50 PM)
Nu vad nici o problema sa te imbogatesti scriind o carte
Pai poti sa scrii aproape ce vrei tu dar asta nu te face istoric
De ce ? Ca asa spune un "critic" ? Uite altul care spune altceva :
In the Journals of the House of Burgesses of Virginia is a document of 1619 which tells of the first twelve years of the Jamestown colony. The first settlement had a hundred persons, who had one small ladle of barley per meal. When more people arrived, there was even less food. Many of the people lived in cavelike holes dug into the ground, and in the winter of 1609-1610, they were ... driven thru insufferable hunger to eat those things which nature most abhorred, the flesh and excrements of man as well of our own nation as of an Indian, digged by some out of his grave after he had lain buried three days and wholly devoured him; others, envying the better state of body of any whom hunger has not yet so much wasted as their own, lay wait and threatened to kill and eat them; one among them slew his wife as she slept in his bosom, cut her in pieces, salted her and fed upon her till he had clean devoured all parts saving her head.. ..
The Virginians needed labor, to grow corn for subsistence, to grow tobacco for export. They had just figured out how to grow tobacco, and in 1617 they sent off the first cargo to England. Finding that, like all pleasurable drugs tainted with moral disapproval, it brought a high price, the planters, despite their high religious talk, were not going to ask questions about something so profitable.
They couldn't force Indians to work for them, as Columbus had done. They were outnumbered, and while, with superior firearms, they could massacre Indians, they would face massacre in return. They could not capture them and keep them enslaved; the Indians were tough, resourceful, defiant, and at home in these woods, as the transplanted Englishmen were not.
White servants had not yet been brought over in sufficient quantity. Besides, they did not come out of slavery, and did not have to do more than contract their labor for a few years to get their passage and a start in the New World. As for the free white settlers, many of them were skilled craftsmen, or even men of leisure back in England, who were so little inclined to work the land that John Smith, in those early years, had to declare a kind of martial law, organize them into work gangs, and force them into the fields for survival.
There may have been a kind of frustrated rage at their own ineptitude, at the Indian superiority at taking care of themselves, that made the Virginians especially ready to become the masters of slaves.
Edmund Morgan imagines their mood as he writes in his book American Slavery, American Freedom:
If you were a colonist, you knew that your technology was superior to the Indians'. You knew that you were civilized, and they were savages... . But your superior technology had proved insufficient to extract anything. The Indians, keeping to themselves, laughed at your superior methods and lived from the land more abundantly and with less labor than you did... . And when your own people started deserting in order to live with them, it was too much. ... So you killed the Indians, tortured them, burned their villages, burned their cornfields. It proved your superiority, in spite of your failures. And you gave similar treatment to any of your own people who succumbed to their savage ways of life. But you still did not grow much Black slaves were the answer.
QUOTE
"Professor Zinn writes with an enthusiasm rarely encountered in the leaden prose of academic history, and his text is studded with telling quotations from labor leaders, war resisters, and fugitive slaves. There are vivid descriptions of events that are usually ignored, such as the great railroad strike of 1877 and the brutal suppression of the Philippine independence movement at the turn of the last century. Professor Zinn's chapter on Vietnam—bringing to life once again the free-fire zones, secret bombings, massacres, and cover-ups-should be required reading for a new generation of students."
Foner said, "The portrayal of these anonymous Americans is strangely circumscribed. Blacks, Indians, women and laborers appear either as rebels or as victims. Less dramatic but more typical lives—people struggling to survive with dignity in difficult circumstances
Foner said, "The portrayal of these anonymous Americans is strangely circumscribed. Blacks, Indians, women and laborers appear either as rebels or as victims. Less dramatic but more typical lives—people struggling to survive with dignity in difficult circumstances
In the Journals of the House of Burgesses of Virginia is a document of 1619 which tells of the first twelve years of the Jamestown colony. The first settlement had a hundred persons, who had one small ladle of barley per meal. When more people arrived, there was even less food. Many of the people lived in cavelike holes dug into the ground, and in the winter of 1609-1610, they were ... driven thru insufferable hunger to eat those things which nature most abhorred, the flesh and excrements of man as well of our own nation as of an Indian, digged by some out of his grave after he had lain buried three days and wholly devoured him; others, envying the better state of body of any whom hunger has not yet so much wasted as their own, lay wait and threatened to kill and eat them; one among them slew his wife as she slept in his bosom, cut her in pieces, salted her and fed upon her till he had clean devoured all parts saving her head.. ..
The Virginians needed labor, to grow corn for subsistence, to grow tobacco for export. They had just figured out how to grow tobacco, and in 1617 they sent off the first cargo to England. Finding that, like all pleasurable drugs tainted with moral disapproval, it brought a high price, the planters, despite their high religious talk, were not going to ask questions about something so profitable.
They couldn't force Indians to work for them, as Columbus had done. They were outnumbered, and while, with superior firearms, they could massacre Indians, they would face massacre in return. They could not capture them and keep them enslaved; the Indians were tough, resourceful, defiant, and at home in these woods, as the transplanted Englishmen were not.
White servants had not yet been brought over in sufficient quantity. Besides, they did not come out of slavery, and did not have to do more than contract their labor for a few years to get their passage and a start in the New World. As for the free white settlers, many of them were skilled craftsmen, or even men of leisure back in England, who were so little inclined to work the land that John Smith, in those early years, had to declare a kind of martial law, organize them into work gangs, and force them into the fields for survival.
There may have been a kind of frustrated rage at their own ineptitude, at the Indian superiority at taking care of themselves, that made the Virginians especially ready to become the masters of slaves.
Edmund Morgan imagines their mood as he writes in his book American Slavery, American Freedom:
If you were a colonist, you knew that your technology was superior to the Indians'. You knew that you were civilized, and they were savages... . But your superior technology had proved insufficient to extract anything. The Indians, keeping to themselves, laughed at your superior methods and lived from the land more abundantly and with less labor than you did... . And when your own people started deserting in order to live with them, it was too much. ... So you killed the Indians, tortured them, burned their villages, burned their cornfields. It proved your superiority, in spite of your failures. And you gave similar treatment to any of your own people who succumbed to their savage ways of life. But you still did not grow much Black slaves were the answer.
jet li ma repet din pacate: esti varza.
vorbeam de colonia pelerinilor si tu sari cu jamestown. vorbim de timisoara si tu sari cu caracalul. sau de razbelul de independenta si tu sari la primul razboi mondial.
vorbeam de colonia pelerinilor si tu sari cu jamestown. vorbim de timisoara si tu sari cu caracalul. sau de razbelul de independenta si tu sari la primul razboi mondial.
No no, just a moment, please 
E acelasi lucru.
Da, "viata in padure", "aventura", libertatea, toate astea pe care poate le-ati simtit vreodata apoi le-ati uitat, au existat. Acum nu mai ai unde sa fugi. Povestile despre copii ramasi orfani la Hiroshima care traiesera liberi pe strazi cativa ani si apoi fugeau tot timpul din caminele sau scolile unde erau adusi, desi acolo aveau mancare, sunt adevarate. Dar dupa cum am spus, nu mai ai unde sa fugi cu adevarat sa traiesti cum traiau indienii pana acum 150 de ani.
QUOTE
Observing a prisoner exchange between the Iroquois and the French in upper New York in
1699, Cadwallader Colden is blunt: “ notwithstanding the French Commissioners took all the
Pains possible to carry Home the French, that were Prisoners with the Five Nations, and they
had full Liberty from the Indians, few of them could be persuaded to return. “Nor, he has to
admit, is this merely a reflection on the quality of French colonial life, “for the English had as
much Difficulty” in persuading their redeemed to come home, despite what Colden would
claim were the obvious superiority of English ways:
No Arguments, no Intreaties, nor Tears of their Friends and Relations, could persuade many
of them to leave their new Indian Friends and Acquaintance; several of them that were by the
Caressings of their Relations persuaded to come Home, in a little Time grew tired of our
Manner of living, and run away again to the Indians, and ended their Days with them. On the
other Hand, Indian Children have been carefully educated among the English, cloathed and
taught, yet, I think, there is not one Instance, that any of these, after they had Liberty to go
among their own People, and were come to Age, would remain with the English, but returned
to their own Nations, and became as fond of the Indian Manner of Life as those that knew
nothing of a civilized Manner of Living. And, he concludes, what he says of this particular
prisoner exchange “has been found true on many other Occasions.”
Benjamin Franklin was even more pointed: When an Indian child is raised in white civilization,
he remarks, the civilizing somehow does not stick, and at the first opportunity he will go back
to his red relations, from whence there is no hope whatever of redeeming him. But when white
persons of either sex have been taken prisoners young by the Indians, and have lived a while
among them, tho’ ransomed by their Friends, and treated with all imaginable tenderness to
prevail with them to stay among the English, yet in a Short time they become disgusted with
our manner of life, and the care and pains that are necessary to support it, and take the first
good Opportunity of escaping again into the Woods, from whence there is no reclaiming them.
There was always the great woods, and the life to
be lived within it was, Crevecoeur admits, “singularly captivating,” perhaps even superior to
that so boasted of by the transplanted Europeans. For, as many knew to their rueful
amazement, “thousands of Europeans are Indians, and we have no examples of even one of
those aborigines having from choice become Europeans!”
1699, Cadwallader Colden is blunt: “ notwithstanding the French Commissioners took all the
Pains possible to carry Home the French, that were Prisoners with the Five Nations, and they
had full Liberty from the Indians, few of them could be persuaded to return. “Nor, he has to
admit, is this merely a reflection on the quality of French colonial life, “for the English had as
much Difficulty” in persuading their redeemed to come home, despite what Colden would
claim were the obvious superiority of English ways:
No Arguments, no Intreaties, nor Tears of their Friends and Relations, could persuade many
of them to leave their new Indian Friends and Acquaintance; several of them that were by the
Caressings of their Relations persuaded to come Home, in a little Time grew tired of our
Manner of living, and run away again to the Indians, and ended their Days with them. On the
other Hand, Indian Children have been carefully educated among the English, cloathed and
taught, yet, I think, there is not one Instance, that any of these, after they had Liberty to go
among their own People, and were come to Age, would remain with the English, but returned
to their own Nations, and became as fond of the Indian Manner of Life as those that knew
nothing of a civilized Manner of Living. And, he concludes, what he says of this particular
prisoner exchange “has been found true on many other Occasions.”
Benjamin Franklin was even more pointed: When an Indian child is raised in white civilization,
he remarks, the civilizing somehow does not stick, and at the first opportunity he will go back
to his red relations, from whence there is no hope whatever of redeeming him. But when white
persons of either sex have been taken prisoners young by the Indians, and have lived a while
among them, tho’ ransomed by their Friends, and treated with all imaginable tenderness to
prevail with them to stay among the English, yet in a Short time they become disgusted with
our manner of life, and the care and pains that are necessary to support it, and take the first
good Opportunity of escaping again into the Woods, from whence there is no reclaiming them.
There was always the great woods, and the life to
be lived within it was, Crevecoeur admits, “singularly captivating,” perhaps even superior to
that so boasted of by the transplanted Europeans. For, as many knew to their rueful
amazement, “thousands of Europeans are Indians, and we have no examples of even one of
those aborigines having from choice become Europeans!”
Da, "viata in padure", "aventura", libertatea, toate astea pe care poate le-ati simtit vreodata apoi le-ati uitat, au existat. Acum nu mai ai unde sa fugi. Povestile despre copii ramasi orfani la Hiroshima care traiesera liberi pe strazi cativa ani si apoi fugeau tot timpul din caminele sau scolile unde erau adusi, desi acolo aveau mancare, sunt adevarate. Dar dupa cum am spus, nu mai ai unde sa fugi cu adevarat sa traiesti cum traiau indienii pana acum 150 de ani.
QUOTE
They know that there is a way the world is supposed to be, and a magnificent role for themselves in that more beautiful world. Broken to the lesser lives we offer them, they react with hostility, rage, cynicism, depression, escapism, or self-destruction—all the defining qualities of modern adolescence. Then we blame them for not bringing these qualities under control, and when they finally have given up their idealism we call them mature. Having given up their idealism, they can get on with the business of survival: practicality and security, comfort and safety, which is what we are left with in the absence of purpose. So we suggest they major in something practical, stay out of trouble, don't take risks, build a résumé. We think we are practical and wise in the ways of the world. Really we are just broken and afraid. We are afraid on their behalf, and, less nobly, we are afraid of what their idealism shows us: the plunder and betrayal of our own youthful possibilities.
QUOTE(jet li @ 4 May 2009, 08:22 PM)
Acum nu mai ai unde sa fugi.
Hai nu ma innebuni, esti in puscarie?
in spiritul unei discutii academice cu peretii iata o carte care prezinta viata la indieni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLCl9sJ00Ig
Gasesc alti cativa nebuni si plec in padure - daca mai e padure. Traiesc din vanatoare. Vine politia si ma aresteaza pe motive de braconaj si speriat turistii. Deci unde mai poti fugi ? Nu mai e ca in America in 1699, vezi ce scrie mai sus, sa fugi la indieni. Care se vede ca nu omorau orice alb intalneau.
QUOTE(jet li @ 5 May 2009, 11:14 AM)
Gasesc alti cativa nebuni si plec in padure - daca mai e padure. Traiesc din vanatoare. Vine politia si ma aresteaza pe motive de braconaj si speriat turistii. Deci unde mai poti fugi ? Nu mai e ca in America in 1699, vezi ce scrie mai sus, sa fugi la indieni. Care se vede ca nu omorau orice alb intalneau.
Pai nu e mai simplu sa te faci padurar?
QUOTE(jet li @ 5 May 2009, 11:14 AM)
Gasesc alti cativa nebuni si plec in padure - daca mai e padure. Traiesc din vanatoare. Vine politia si ma aresteaza pe motive de braconaj si speriat turistii. Deci unde mai poti fugi ? Nu mai e ca in America in 1699, vezi ce scrie mai sus, sa fugi la indieni. Care se vede ca nu omorau orice alb intalneau.
Stai ma copile linistit ca n-o sa pleci in nici o padure. Iti spun eu ce-o sa faci: O sa ne ti predici pe forum despre nostalgia ta anarho-primitivista pana o sa te plictisesti si tu ( ca pe noi ne-ai distrus de plictiseala), apoi o sa gasesti si tu o fata care sa-ti bage mintile in cap si ai sa-ti revii.
Tu nu de padure si triburi ai nevoie, tu ai nevoie de forum ca sa spui altora ca retetele tale de fericire sunt universale.
Dupa nick banuiesc cam care a fost traiectoria "gandirii" tale...e una clasica: arte martiale ->contact cu "spiritualitatea" orientala -> concluzia "dharma este eterna" -> seductia "reintoarcerii la origini" -> predici plicticoase pe forum.
Hai sa-ti dezvalui un secret : Hapiness is a warm pussy
Bine ca le stii tu pe toate. Da retetele mele sunt universale. Sunt pentru toti.
Si imposibil de aplicat la cati suntem nu putem trai simplu avem nevoie de tehnologie. Am descris o societate tribala cu tehnologie. Nu va fi aplicata vreodata. De ce mai scriu ? Nu stiu, poate ca sa am satisfactia sa sa zic odata : "v-am spus eu !"
Planeta este aproape de distrugere. Curand vei intelege ca fericirea ta nu poate fi decat o parte din fericirea tuturor. Altfel o sa trebuiasca sa te lupti cu toti pentru supravietuire. Mult mai necivilizat decat oamenii dintr-un trib.
"Soylent Green"
Si imposibil de aplicat la cati suntem nu putem trai simplu avem nevoie de tehnologie. Am descris o societate tribala cu tehnologie. Nu va fi aplicata vreodata. De ce mai scriu ? Nu stiu, poate ca sa am satisfactia sa sa zic odata : "v-am spus eu !"
Planeta este aproape de distrugere. Curand vei intelege ca fericirea ta nu poate fi decat o parte din fericirea tuturor. Altfel o sa trebuiasca sa te lupti cu toti pentru supravietuire. Mult mai necivilizat decat oamenii dintr-un trib.
"Soylent Green"
QUOTE(jet li @ 5 May 2009, 01:45 PM)
Planeta este aproape de distrugere.
?????
jet fa-te mama padurar: or sa fie astia fericiti ca stai la cort si nu e nevoie de cabana. iti dau si pusca dar tu poate o refuzi si vrei o sulita , nimeni nu o sa aiba nimic cu tine. ca padurar, faci ce vrei pe tarlaua ta. bine, pana in prima noapte cu mos martin cu care o sa te intelegi de minune cum se intelegeau indienii talpa-iute cu ursuletul de plus grizzly.
http://www.tjclark.com.au/colloidal-minera...l-depletion.htm
"A declining soil fertility, due to a lack of organic material, major elements, and trace minerals, is responsible for poor crops and in turn for pathological conditions in animals fed deficient foods from such soils, and that mankind is no exception."
Dr Albrecht goes further to unequivocally lay the blame:
"NPK formulas, as legislated and enforced by State Departments of Agriculture, mean malnutrition, attack by insects, bacteria and fungi, weed takeover, crop loss in dry weather, and general loss of mental acuity in the population, leading to degenerative metabolic disease and early death."
1992 Earth Summit Statistics
1992 Earth Summit Report* indicate that the mineral content of the world's farm and range land soil has decreased dramatically.
Percentage of Mineral Depletion From Soil During The Past 100 Years, By Continent:
North America 85% **
South America 76%
Asia 76%
Africa 74%
Europe 72%
Australia 55%
* You may remember the 1992 Earth Summit by the fact that President Bush wouldn't sign any of the treaties.
** Some US farms are 100% depleted and some are 60% depleted, the average is 85% depletion as compared to 100 years ago. This is worse than in any other country in the world because of the extended use of fertilizers and "maximum yield" mass farming methods.
According to research in animal husbandry and from The National Science Foundation, animals require at least: 45 minerals 12 essential amino acids 16 vitamins 3 essential fatty acids
According to Gary Price Todd, MD, the human body requires at least 60 minerals for optimal health and basically the same other essentials as animals.
But, only 8 minerals are available in any kind of quantity in most of the food we eat today.
We know plants can make vitamins, amino acids and varying amounts of fatty acids, if they are healthy from being grown in soils containing abundant minerals. If the soil lacks minerals, the plant is stunted because a plant can not make minerals.
Deci in momentul asta doar ingrasamintele artificiale ne mai tine solul in stare "productiva". Nu va mirati de gustul si calitatile legumelor produse "industrial". Fara ingrasamintele astea eram de mult timp intr-o criza de alimente.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/02/0079915
"A declining soil fertility, due to a lack of organic material, major elements, and trace minerals, is responsible for poor crops and in turn for pathological conditions in animals fed deficient foods from such soils, and that mankind is no exception."
Dr Albrecht goes further to unequivocally lay the blame:
"NPK formulas, as legislated and enforced by State Departments of Agriculture, mean malnutrition, attack by insects, bacteria and fungi, weed takeover, crop loss in dry weather, and general loss of mental acuity in the population, leading to degenerative metabolic disease and early death."
1992 Earth Summit Statistics
1992 Earth Summit Report* indicate that the mineral content of the world's farm and range land soil has decreased dramatically.
Percentage of Mineral Depletion From Soil During The Past 100 Years, By Continent:
North America 85% **
South America 76%
Asia 76%
Africa 74%
Europe 72%
Australia 55%
* You may remember the 1992 Earth Summit by the fact that President Bush wouldn't sign any of the treaties.
** Some US farms are 100% depleted and some are 60% depleted, the average is 85% depletion as compared to 100 years ago. This is worse than in any other country in the world because of the extended use of fertilizers and "maximum yield" mass farming methods.
According to research in animal husbandry and from The National Science Foundation, animals require at least: 45 minerals 12 essential amino acids 16 vitamins 3 essential fatty acids
According to Gary Price Todd, MD, the human body requires at least 60 minerals for optimal health and basically the same other essentials as animals.
But, only 8 minerals are available in any kind of quantity in most of the food we eat today.
We know plants can make vitamins, amino acids and varying amounts of fatty acids, if they are healthy from being grown in soils containing abundant minerals. If the soil lacks minerals, the plant is stunted because a plant can not make minerals.
Deci in momentul asta doar ingrasamintele artificiale ne mai tine solul in stare "productiva". Nu va mirati de gustul si calitatile legumelor produse "industrial". Fara ingrasamintele astea eram de mult timp intr-o criza de alimente.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/02/0079915
QUOTE
Iowa is almost all fields now. Little prairie remains, and if you can find what Iowans call a “postage stamp” remnant of some, it most likely will abut a cornfield. This allows an observation. Walk from the prairie to the field, and you probably will step down about six feet, as if the land had been stolen from beneath you. Settlers' accounts of the prairie conquest mention a sound, a series of pops, like pistol shots, the sound of stout grass roots breaking before a moldboard plow. A robbery was in progress.
QUOTE
People were far more alive in all their senses. !Kung San, reported R. H. Post, have heard a single-engined plane while it was still 70 miles away, and many of them can see four moons of Jupiter with the naked eye. The summary judgment of Harris and Ross, as to “an overall decline in the quality - and probably in the length - of human life among farmers as compared with earlier hunter-gatherer groups,” is understated.
One of the most persistent and universal ideas is that there was once a Golden Age of innocence before history began. Hesiod, for instance, referred to the “life-sustaining soil, which yielded its copious fruits unbribed by toil.” Eden was clearly the home of the huntergatherers and the yearning expressed by the historical images of paradise must have been
that of disillusioned tillers of the soil for a lost life of freedom and relative ease.
The history of civilization shows the increasing displacement of nature from human experience, characterized in part by a narrowing of food choices. According to Rooney, prehistoric peoples found sustenance in over 1500 species of wild plants, whereas “All civilizations,” Wenke reminds us, have been based on the cultivation of one or more of just six plant species: wheat, barley, millet, rice, maize, and potatoes.”
It is a striking truth that over the centuries “the number of different edible foods which are actually eaten,” Pyke points out, “has steadily dwindled.” The world’s population now depends for most of its subsistence on only about 20 genera of plants while their natural strains are replaced by artificial hybrids and the genetic pool of these plants becomes far less varied.
The diversity of food tends to disappear or flatten out as the proportion of manufactured foods increases. Today the very same articles of diet are distributed worldwide so that an Inuit Eskimo and an African native may soon be eating powdered milk manufactured in Wisconsin or frozen fish sticks from a single factory in Sweden. A few big multinationals such as Unilever, the world’s biggest food production company, preside over a highly integrated service system in which the object is not to nourish or even to feed, but to force an everincreasing consumption of fabricated, processed products upon the world.
The diets of hunter-gatherers appear to be comparatively well balanced, even when they are lean. Ethnographic accounts of contemporary groups suggest that protein intakes are commonly quite high, comparable to those of affluent modern groups and substantially above world averages. Protein deficiency is almost unknown in these groups, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies are rare and usually mild in comparison to rates reported from many Third World populations. Archaeological evidence suggests that specific deficiencies, including that of iron (anemia), vitamin D (rickets), and, more controversially, vitamin C (scurvy) as well as such general signs of protein calorie malnutrition as childhood growth retardation have generally become more common in history rather than declining.
One of the most persistent and universal ideas is that there was once a Golden Age of innocence before history began. Hesiod, for instance, referred to the “life-sustaining soil, which yielded its copious fruits unbribed by toil.” Eden was clearly the home of the huntergatherers and the yearning expressed by the historical images of paradise must have been
that of disillusioned tillers of the soil for a lost life of freedom and relative ease.
The history of civilization shows the increasing displacement of nature from human experience, characterized in part by a narrowing of food choices. According to Rooney, prehistoric peoples found sustenance in over 1500 species of wild plants, whereas “All civilizations,” Wenke reminds us, have been based on the cultivation of one or more of just six plant species: wheat, barley, millet, rice, maize, and potatoes.”
It is a striking truth that over the centuries “the number of different edible foods which are actually eaten,” Pyke points out, “has steadily dwindled.” The world’s population now depends for most of its subsistence on only about 20 genera of plants while their natural strains are replaced by artificial hybrids and the genetic pool of these plants becomes far less varied.
The diversity of food tends to disappear or flatten out as the proportion of manufactured foods increases. Today the very same articles of diet are distributed worldwide so that an Inuit Eskimo and an African native may soon be eating powdered milk manufactured in Wisconsin or frozen fish sticks from a single factory in Sweden. A few big multinationals such as Unilever, the world’s biggest food production company, preside over a highly integrated service system in which the object is not to nourish or even to feed, but to force an everincreasing consumption of fabricated, processed products upon the world.
The diets of hunter-gatherers appear to be comparatively well balanced, even when they are lean. Ethnographic accounts of contemporary groups suggest that protein intakes are commonly quite high, comparable to those of affluent modern groups and substantially above world averages. Protein deficiency is almost unknown in these groups, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies are rare and usually mild in comparison to rates reported from many Third World populations. Archaeological evidence suggests that specific deficiencies, including that of iron (anemia), vitamin D (rickets), and, more controversially, vitamin C (scurvy) as well as such general signs of protein calorie malnutrition as childhood growth retardation have generally become more common in history rather than declining.
QUOTE(jet li @ 5 May 2009, 02:04 PM)
Deci in momentul asta doar ingrasamintele artificiale ne mai tine solul in stare "productiva". Nu va mirati de gustul si calitatile legumelor produse "industrial". Fara ingrasamintele astea eram de mult timp intr-o criza de alimente.
asa e ca nu ai dat cu sapa la tara niciodata?
sa imi spui ce ingrasaminte a bagat tzatza floarea pe parcela ei de 2 mp la tara in afara de balegar care probabil e toxic dai copy paste de cum se plang unii de agricultura vestica si nu iesi dintre bloacele de beton de unde postezi apocaliptic sa vezi bosimanii la 20 de km de bucale cum stau in corturi ....
Balegarul e bun. Crezi ca e destul balegar sa inlocuiasca ingrasamintele artificiale ? Tu iti dai seama de cate pasuni ar fi nevoie pentru destule vaci care sa produca tot balegarul ala ? Care pasuni ar trebui desigur ingrasate, nu doar le semeni cu lucerna si cosesti, decat daca intentionezi sa patesti ce au patit grecii inca de acum cateva mii de ani. Citeste articolul de mai sus.
QUOTE(jet li @ 5 May 2009, 02:11 PM)
Balegarul e bun. Crezi ca e destul balegar sa inlocuiasca ingrasamintele artificiale ? Tu iti dai seama de cate pasuni ar fi nevoie pentru destule vaci care sa produca tot balegarul ala ? Care pasuni ar trebui desigur ingrasate, nu doar le semeni cu lucerna si cosesti, decat daca intentionezi sa patesti ce au patit grecii inca de acum cateva mii de ani. Citeste articolul de mai sus.
mor de ras cu tine, esti exemplul tipic de urban caruia ii pute urbanul si vrea "libertate" dar care ar muri la prima intepatura de albina in padure. habar nu ai de agricultura nici macar cat se face in romania empiric si de subzistenta si ne spui ca "planeta este aproape de distrugere" si ca s-a dus naibii solul. ei bine, solul e bine mersi tot acolo.
succes la rotatia culturilor pe gugal si agricultura organica. presupun ca habar nu ai de ce taranii spun ca e bine ca vacile sa calce bine iarba, ca nu e pe gugal sau prin "cartile' alea mijto.
Sigur ca da , rotatia culturilor, etc. Daca nu pui nimic inapoi in sol pana la urma ramai fara el. Foarte simplu. Iei o cantitate de material in fiecare an, nu poti sa iei la nesfarsit. Nu tot pamantul e sol. Stiu foarte bine cum se pune balegar in gradina.
Citeste despre navele cu panze care plecau din Anglia sa aduca guano din Tara de Foc. Inainte de inventia ingrasamintelor chimice. De ce oare ? O rotatie a culturilor si niste vaci care "sa calce iarba" nu erau de ajuns ? Citeste despre ce foloseau japonezii ca ingrasaminte inainte de astea chimice si valoarea acelor ingrasaminte :
http://books.google.ro/books?id=f7E5a9CIpl...num=3#PPA113,M1
Pana si indienii care cultivau porumb stiau sa foloseasca pesti ca ingrasaminte. Citeste articolul de mai sus cum cazi 2 metri daca treci de la preerie la un camp cultivat. Pentru ca primii fermieri americani au dat de "sol virgin" si l-au folosit. Solul e o resursa. De asta cand cureti solul pentru o contructie ti se cere sa-l pastrezi de catre primarie nu sa-l duci la groapa de gunoi. Se formeaza cativa milimetri intr-o 100 de ani.
Citeste despre navele cu panze care plecau din Anglia sa aduca guano din Tara de Foc. Inainte de inventia ingrasamintelor chimice. De ce oare ? O rotatie a culturilor si niste vaci care "sa calce iarba" nu erau de ajuns ? Citeste despre ce foloseau japonezii ca ingrasaminte inainte de astea chimice si valoarea acelor ingrasaminte :
http://books.google.ro/books?id=f7E5a9CIpl...num=3#PPA113,M1
Pana si indienii care cultivau porumb stiau sa foloseasca pesti ca ingrasaminte. Citeste articolul de mai sus cum cazi 2 metri daca treci de la preerie la un camp cultivat. Pentru ca primii fermieri americani au dat de "sol virgin" si l-au folosit. Solul e o resursa. De asta cand cureti solul pentru o contructie ti se cere sa-l pastrezi de catre primarie nu sa-l duci la groapa de gunoi. Se formeaza cativa milimetri intr-o 100 de ani.
QUOTE(jet li @ 5 May 2009, 02:48 PM)
Daca nu pui nimic inapoi in sol pana la urma ramai fara el.
esti hopeles
QUOTE(jet li @ 5 May 2009, 01:45 PM)
Bine ca le stii tu pe toate. Da retetele mele sunt universale. Sunt pentru toti.
Si imposibil de aplicat la cati suntem nu putem trai simplu avem nevoie de tehnologie. Am descris o societate tribala cu tehnologie. Nu va fi aplicata vreodata. De ce mai scriu ? Nu stiu, poate ca sa am satisfactia sa sa zic odata : "v-am spus eu !"
Planeta este aproape de distrugere. Curand vei intelege ca fericirea ta nu poate fi decat o parte din fericirea tuturor. Altfel o sa trebuiasca sa te lupti cu toti pentru supravietuire. Mult mai necivilizat decat oamenii dintr-un trib.
"Soylent Green"
Si imposibil de aplicat la cati suntem nu putem trai simplu avem nevoie de tehnologie. Am descris o societate tribala cu tehnologie. Nu va fi aplicata vreodata. De ce mai scriu ? Nu stiu, poate ca sa am satisfactia sa sa zic odata : "v-am spus eu !"
Planeta este aproape de distrugere. Curand vei intelege ca fericirea ta nu poate fi decat o parte din fericirea tuturor. Altfel o sa trebuiasca sa te lupti cu toti pentru supravietuire. Mult mai necivilizat decat oamenii dintr-un trib.
"Soylent Green"
Cum ziceam, numai vorba de tine ... ratiunea ta de a fi in momentul de fata este acea manie obsesiva de care sufera toti profetii-wannabe : sa vorbeasca, sa predice, sa "sufere" pentru destinul omenirii...
Locul comun al frustratilor care vor sa zica si ei ceva important ca sa fie ascultati este teoria apocaliptica ... si piata e plina de astfel de teorii si de guru salvatori...
Jalnic, adevarul este ca nu iti pasa absolut de loc despre omenire, ci esti doar dependent de gandul ca esti un "spirit superior" care vede adevarul ultim si avertizeaza omenirea... ai si tu nevoie de self-respect si ti-l procuri prin metoda sclavului neputincios: impartind profetii apocaliptice sau teorii conspirationiste.
Satisfactia pe care ti-ar da-o "v-am spus eu!" este cea mai clara dovada a gradului de frustrare la care te gasesti.
Pana la urma, daca omenirea dispare si odata cu ea dispar si tremuricii apocaliptici, tot e un castig.
Nu e asa cum zici. "v-am spus eu" e ultimul lucru care imi ramane si de fapt nu ma intereseaza.
Scriu si eu ce am chef, pentru asta e un forum nu ? Scriitorii de ce scriu ? Nu pentru ca vor sa spuna si altora ce gandesc ? Daca nu exista forumul probabil ca scriam vreo carte sau ceva.
Scriu si eu ce am chef, pentru asta e un forum nu ? Scriitorii de ce scriu ? Nu pentru ca vor sa spuna si altora ce gandesc ? Daca nu exista forumul probabil ca scriam vreo carte sau ceva.
When the child becomes aware of ideas and impulses that oppose the dictates of civilization, s/he experiences anxiety, which is the signal for danger. It is not the insights and urges themselves that the child fears, but rather the reaction to them on the part of those in charge. Since the child cannot escape from those who control its life, s/he runs away from dangerous thoughts and feelings. In other words, the child institutes repression of its primitive self. Tribal ideas are now isolated, cut off from awareness, and unable to properly influence the future course of events.
The trauma or inescapable terror of civilization is responsible for the derangement of reason. That inner dialogue in the human mind that is the hallmark of self-consciousness has ceased, because the depth-dimension of reflective thought, which is the primitive mind, has been silenced. Modern people no longer hear their own primal voice, and without interaction between new ideas and old ideas, the demands of the individual and the demands of the tribe (and species), there is no deep thinking. On the contrary, when reason is cut off at the roots, it becomes shallow, unable to determine what is of true value in life.
Conclusion
When the final crisis of civilization comes in the 21st Century, the present system will do whatever is necessary to perpetuate itself. People who are in the stranglehold of the false self will support whatever the system does, including the exploitation and destruction of National Parks, Designated Wilderness Areas, and The Wildlands Project (whatever it achieves). Unless people possess an assured, sane psychological core, everything else is in jeopardy. The personal pursuit of sanity is, or will shortly become, the overriding issue for the vast majority of people, and toward this end, each person, isolated and fearful in modern society, must be armed with an ideal or vision of what s/he would like to be and should be. There is nothing better to offer people than a tribal ideal. It is, then, up to each person to do the difficult psychological work of personal liberation that must precede real change. This personal task of healing the mind can be and must be accomplished, to a decisive point, in modern-day circumstances.
http://www.primitivism.com/machine-heads.htm
The trauma or inescapable terror of civilization is responsible for the derangement of reason. That inner dialogue in the human mind that is the hallmark of self-consciousness has ceased, because the depth-dimension of reflective thought, which is the primitive mind, has been silenced. Modern people no longer hear their own primal voice, and without interaction between new ideas and old ideas, the demands of the individual and the demands of the tribe (and species), there is no deep thinking. On the contrary, when reason is cut off at the roots, it becomes shallow, unable to determine what is of true value in life.
Conclusion
When the final crisis of civilization comes in the 21st Century, the present system will do whatever is necessary to perpetuate itself. People who are in the stranglehold of the false self will support whatever the system does, including the exploitation and destruction of National Parks, Designated Wilderness Areas, and The Wildlands Project (whatever it achieves). Unless people possess an assured, sane psychological core, everything else is in jeopardy. The personal pursuit of sanity is, or will shortly become, the overriding issue for the vast majority of people, and toward this end, each person, isolated and fearful in modern society, must be armed with an ideal or vision of what s/he would like to be and should be. There is nothing better to offer people than a tribal ideal. It is, then, up to each person to do the difficult psychological work of personal liberation that must precede real change. This personal task of healing the mind can be and must be accomplished, to a decisive point, in modern-day circumstances.
http://www.primitivism.com/machine-heads.htm
QUOTE(jet li @ 5 May 2009, 05:28 PM)
Nu e asa cum zici. "v-am spus eu" e ultimul lucru care imi ramane si de fapt nu ma intereseaza.
Scriu si eu ce am chef, pentru asta e un forum nu ? Scriitorii de ce scriu ? Nu pentru ca vor sa spuna si altora ce gandesc ? Daca nu exista forumul probabil ca scriam vreo carte sau ceva.
Scriu si eu ce am chef, pentru asta e un forum nu ? Scriitorii de ce scriu ? Nu pentru ca vor sa spuna si altora ce gandesc ? Daca nu exista forumul probabil ca scriam vreo carte sau ceva.
Tu nu esti scriitor mai copile ... tu abia esti in stare sa te inchei la sireturi.
Copy-paste arata cat de neputincios esti iar insistenta ta este masura indoctrinarii si virusarii creierului tau. Esti cun caz de studiu pentru teoria memeticii.
Teoriile tale sunt atat de prostesi iar insistenta ta atat de agasanta incat nu mai intereseaza pe nimeni ce postezi tu ci doar in ce stare psihica trebuie sa se afle unul care e atat de posedat de prostiile pe care le debiteaza.
Cine zice ca nu sunt scriitor ? Dupa cum am zis fiecare scrie ce vrea, si scriu pe forum nu intr-un caiet sa aflu ce gandesc si altii si altii sa afle ce gandesc eu. Conversatie. Nu prea am sansa sa vorbesc despre lucrurile astea decat pe forum.
De ce te iei de mine ? Da-mi ignore. Nu citi. Etc.
Dau copy paste acum pentru ca tocmai am gasit cartea asta "Against civilization" care contine citate din multi autori despre civilizatie si primitivism. Va arat ca nu sunt singurul nebun. Si poate intelegeti si voi ce inteleg eu.
De fapt de unde ai aparut si ce ai cu mine ? Cine esti, ce vrei ? Da-mi ignore, sau daca o tii tot asa iti dau eu. De fapt nu gasesc butonul de ignore asa ca nu iti mai raspund daca tot ce stii e sa te iei de mine. Eu daca vad un topic care nu ma intereseaza si oameni care se cearta pe lucruri pe care le consider copilaresti cum ar fi politicianul x vs y, nu raspund, nu ma uit, nu ma bag sa scriu despre cat de "prosti" sunt aia care scriu. Esti superior ? Uita-te de departe sau scrie ceva care sa ma faca sa inteleg, altfel de ce scrii aici ?
Care de aici ati avut macar partial sansa de a experimenta viata ca un vanator culegator ? Cand eram mic stateam toata vara la tara, toata ziua eram cu prietenii de acolo pe deal, pe rau, prin padure, si de multe ori nu veneam acasa la pranz, desigur ca mi-era foame dar mancam ce gaseam. Nuci, mere, pesti, alune, corcoduse, etc etc. Asta creeaza o legatura cu natura care nu poate fi inteleasa in alt fel. Vezi o conducta care curge in raul unde prinzi peste sau faci baie. Vezi altii care aduc gunoaie si le arunca prin rau. Nu iti convine pentru ca simti ca raul e al tau, de fapt tot ce te inconjoara e gradina raiului si ce se intampla e pierderea semnificatiei ei. Doar o mica si partiala experienta a cea ce se intampla de la inceputul civilizatiei.
Desigur mai tarziu cresti si uiti de toate astea, lucrurile incep sa se masoare in bani, etc...
De ce te iei de mine ? Da-mi ignore. Nu citi. Etc.
Dau copy paste acum pentru ca tocmai am gasit cartea asta "Against civilization" care contine citate din multi autori despre civilizatie si primitivism. Va arat ca nu sunt singurul nebun. Si poate intelegeti si voi ce inteleg eu.
De fapt de unde ai aparut si ce ai cu mine ? Cine esti, ce vrei ? Da-mi ignore, sau daca o tii tot asa iti dau eu. De fapt nu gasesc butonul de ignore asa ca nu iti mai raspund daca tot ce stii e sa te iei de mine. Eu daca vad un topic care nu ma intereseaza si oameni care se cearta pe lucruri pe care le consider copilaresti cum ar fi politicianul x vs y, nu raspund, nu ma uit, nu ma bag sa scriu despre cat de "prosti" sunt aia care scriu. Esti superior ? Uita-te de departe sau scrie ceva care sa ma faca sa inteleg, altfel de ce scrii aici ?
Care de aici ati avut macar partial sansa de a experimenta viata ca un vanator culegator ? Cand eram mic stateam toata vara la tara, toata ziua eram cu prietenii de acolo pe deal, pe rau, prin padure, si de multe ori nu veneam acasa la pranz, desigur ca mi-era foame dar mancam ce gaseam. Nuci, mere, pesti, alune, corcoduse, etc etc. Asta creeaza o legatura cu natura care nu poate fi inteleasa in alt fel. Vezi o conducta care curge in raul unde prinzi peste sau faci baie. Vezi altii care aduc gunoaie si le arunca prin rau. Nu iti convine pentru ca simti ca raul e al tau, de fapt tot ce te inconjoara e gradina raiului si ce se intampla e pierderea semnificatiei ei. Doar o mica si partiala experienta a cea ce se intampla de la inceputul civilizatiei.
Desigur mai tarziu cresti si uiti de toate astea, lucrurile incep sa se masoare in bani, etc...
QUOTE(jet li @ 6 May 2009, 08:21 AM)
Care de aici ati avut macar partial sansa de a experimenta viata ca un vanator culegator ? Cand eram mic stateam toata vara la tara, toata ziua eram cu prietenii de acolo pe deal, pe rau, prin padure, si de multe ori nu veneam acasa la pranz, desigur ca mi-era foame dar mancam ce gaseam. Nuci, mere, pesti, alune, corcoduse, etc etc. Asta creeaza o legatura cu natura care nu poate fi inteleasa in alt fel. Vezi o conducta care curge in raul unde prinzi peste sau faci baie. Vezi altii care aduc gunoaie si le arunca prin rau. Nu iti convine pentru ca simti ca raul e al tau, de fapt tot ce te inconjoara e gradina raiului si ce se intampla e pierderea semnificatiei ei. Doar o mica si partiala experienta a cea ce se intampla de la inceputul civilizatiei.
Asta e vanator culegator ca spargi niste seminte in padure? Bai jet in cazul asta io sunt tarzan ca am dat si cu ursul si cu lupii si cu vipera ochii
. Si tot nu bat campiii cu reintoarcerea la mama natura si sa fac pe indianu de forum desi am citit ca toti altii ciresarii si karl may la varsta lor.Auzi "nu veneam la pranz" creeaza legatura cu natura. Sa vezi experienta de legatura cu natura cand esti la vreo 75 de km de civilizatie si ti s-a terminat haleala si unul are un picior rupt. Sau cand esti epuizat si esti singur pe munte iar ploua si esti ud leaorca cu un inceput de pneumonie . Marfa....
Vanatorii culegatori nu traiau singuri. Cea mai mare pedeapsa la ei era alungarea din trib. Ce vrei sa imi cer scuze ca nu am inventat masina timpului si nu am trait de cand m-am nascut intre ei ca sa pot spune mai multe ? Am spus ca e o experienta partiala, daca nu ai experimentat-o nu stii despre ce vb. Aveam vreo 12 ani pe atunci, acea experienta te face sa intelegi ca depinzi de natura si mancarea nu creste in magazin.
QUOTE(jet li @ 6 May 2009, 10:07 AM)
Aveam vreo 12 ani pe atunci
Adica tu ai fost o singura data in padure si de la 12 ani nu ai mai calcat pe acolo?
me tarzan
Nu, cam pana pe la sfarsitul liceului eram "in padure" adica la tara in fiecare vara. Asta de cand eram foarte mic. Oricum daca nu intelegi citatele pe care le-am dat pe aici, degeaba iti spun eu ce simteam si cum vedeam lumea odata. Apoi am fost indoctrinat cu "civilizatie", dar nu pentru multa vreme.
Am fost la coasa, la adunat, la sapat, pentru bani, asta cand mersul la scaldat nu mai era de ajuns pentru distractie, si bunicii nu aveau de unde sa-mi dea bani. Stiu cum e viata la tara. Stiu de ce povestea alungarii din rai e o poveste care nu putea fi scrisa de "civilizatia" noastra ci doar de vanatori culegatori mirati de modul greu de viata al vecinilor lor.
Am fost la coasa, la adunat, la sapat, pentru bani, asta cand mersul la scaldat nu mai era de ajuns pentru distractie, si bunicii nu aveau de unde sa-mi dea bani. Stiu cum e viata la tara. Stiu de ce povestea alungarii din rai e o poveste care nu putea fi scrisa de "civilizatia" noastra ci doar de vanatori culegatori mirati de modul greu de viata al vecinilor lor.
QUOTE(jet li @ 6 May 2009, 10:30 AM)
Stiu cum e viata la tara.
great , inca un specialist ....
Dude , vacanta e una , alta e statul la tara.Vezi ca e pe aici un topic cu construit cabane . Bafta!
Fiecare cu ce are. Eu atata am experimentat atata stiu. Viata la tara nu e usoara. Viata vanatorilor culegatori nu e "viata la tara". Dupa cum am aratat mai sus, de ce oare crezi ca fugeau colonistii aia la indieni si nu voiau sa se intoarca, nu le mai pasa nici de familii nici de nimic. Pentru ca fugeau de la sclavia agriculturii sau banului la o viata mai usoara , libera, comunitate ,etc.
QUOTE(jet li @ 6 May 2009, 11:59 AM)
. Dupa cum am aratat mai sus, de ce oare crezi ca fugeau colonistii aia la indieni si nu voiau sa se intoarca, nu le mai pasa nici de familii nici de nimic. Pentru ca fugeau de la sclavia agriculturii sau banului la o viata mai usoara , libera, comunitate ,etc.
Poate ca fugeau dupa indience
Cert e ca nu dau doi bani pe ce zice Jet Li pana cand nu pune in practica toate chestiile pe care le spune.
Spre deosebire de tine, Jet Li, am fost si cu vacile la islaz, sa am grija de ele, si cu oile, am sapat si la porumb, am cules porumb etc cat am
stat la tara. Pot sa iti zic ca nici unul din oamenii care erau cu mine si munceau acolo (inclusiv eu) nu iubea munca respectiva prea mult. Agricultura asta
e al naibii de grea... Fara tractor si fara plug, fara ingrasaminte se duce naibii tot.
Spre deosebire de tine, Jet Li, am fost si cu vacile la islaz, sa am grija de ele, si cu oile, am sapat si la porumb, am cules porumb etc cat am
stat la tara. Pot sa iti zic ca nici unul din oamenii care erau cu mine si munceau acolo (inclusiv eu) nu iubea munca respectiva prea mult. Agricultura asta
e al naibii de grea... Fara tractor si fara plug, fara ingrasaminte se duce naibii tot.
Acum de ce esti rau poate il vedem in direct la otv cum intra in padure si iese dupa 5 minute cautand o hartie igienica......
Riight. Omul habar nu are cum sa ingrijeasca de o gradina mica, dar daca ar trebui sa si traiasca din ce ii da pamantul...
cand eram mici vroiam sa fugim cu gasca in padure aveam de tati : corturi, lanterne , conserve, arcuri 
ce sa mai rambo.
si acum tin minte bataia mancata cand ne-au prins babacii. se pare ca jet li se trezeste mai tarziu si e la stadiul de "vreau sa fug..."
ce sa mai rambo. si acum tin minte bataia mancata cand ne-au prins babacii. se pare ca jet li se trezeste mai tarziu si e la stadiul de "vreau sa fug..."
QUOTE(Blakut @ 6 May 2009, 08:16 PM)
Cert e ca nu dau doi bani pe ce zice Jet Li pana cand nu pune in practica toate chestiile pe care le spune.
Spre deosebire de tine, Jet Li, am fost si cu vacile la islaz, sa am grija de ele, si cu oile, am sapat si la porumb, am cules porumb etc cat am
stat la tara. Pot sa iti zic ca nici unul din oamenii care erau cu mine si munceau acolo (inclusiv eu) nu iubea munca respectiva prea mult. Agricultura asta
e al naibii de grea... Fara tractor si fara plug, fara ingrasaminte se duce naibii tot.
Spre deosebire de tine, Jet Li, am fost si cu vacile la islaz, sa am grija de ele, si cu oile, am sapat si la porumb, am cules porumb etc cat am
stat la tara. Pot sa iti zic ca nici unul din oamenii care erau cu mine si munceau acolo (inclusiv eu) nu iubea munca respectiva prea mult. Agricultura asta
e al naibii de grea... Fara tractor si fara plug, fara ingrasaminte se duce naibii tot.
De unde stii ce am facut eu ? Si eu aveam vaci, gradina, prune de cules, fan de adunat pentru vaci, etc. Nu eram chiar tot timpul fara nimic de facut. Nu am sa stau sa va explic tot.
Nu sunt impotriva tehnologiei, suntem prea multi sa supravietuim fara tehnologia din agricultura de ex, doar a modului in care e folosita.
Cine credeti voi ca e de acord cu mine ?
"Tot laudatul nostru progres tehnologic--insasi civilizatia noastra--este ca toporul in mana unui criminal nebun." ~Albert Einstein
"All our lauded technological progress--our very civilization--is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal." ~Albert Einstein
Si cu toate astea Einstein a fost un cercetator. Doar ca modul in care folosim tehnologia inventata de unii ca el e intr-adevar ca toporul din mana unui criminal nebun. Taie, cumpara, arunca, si repeta. Pana nu mai ramane nimic. Nu conteaza ca nu ai nevoie de ce tocmai ai "produs". Important e sa se cumpere , cat mai mult, altfel nu ai slujba.
http://gigapica.geenstijl.nl/2009/05/mooi_milieu.html
QUOTE(jet li @ 10 May 2009, 03:18 PM)
Cine credeti voi ca e de acord cu mine ?
"Tot laudatul nostru progres tehnologic--insasi civilizatia noastra--este ca toporul in mana unui criminal nebun." ~Albert Einstein
"All our lauded technological progress--our very civilization--is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal." ~Albert Einstein
Si cu toate astea Einstein a fost un cercetator. Doar ca modul in care folosim tehnologia inventata de unii ca el e intr-adevar ca toporul din mana unui criminal nebun.
"Tot laudatul nostru progres tehnologic--insasi civilizatia noastra--este ca toporul in mana unui criminal nebun." ~Albert Einstein
"All our lauded technological progress--our very civilization--is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal." ~Albert Einstein
Si cu toate astea Einstein a fost un cercetator. Doar ca modul in care folosim tehnologia inventata de unii ca el e intr-adevar ca toporul din mana unui criminal nebun.
let me guess: si einstein a fugit cu voi la bosimani......
Bacteria create aquatic superbugs in waste treatment plants
Asa. Niste stiri vesele despre "civilizatie". Unora li se pare ca "zboara spre stele" in timp ce cadem ca un bolovan.
Unii spun ca am inventat civilizatia ca sa traim mai bine. Apoi descopera ca de fapt muncim mai mult ca vanatorii culegatori. De ce oare ? Apoi ii dau cu "munca e buna". Buna la ce ? Nu pentru asta am inventat toata tehnologia asta ca sa muncim mai putin ? Dar am inventat si societatea de consum care inseamna nu sa muncim mai putin, ci sa consumam tot ce producem, si chiar daca producem mai mult decat ne trebuie - cu ajutorul noilor tehnologii, tot nu ne putem opri din munca, ca ramanem fara slujba, asa e sistemul.
In America in 1927 erau de ajuns 14% din fabrici pentru a acoperi necesarul de pantofi. Imaginati-va ce e acum. Cata munca degeaba, transformarea planetei in gunoi.
Si cu toata aceasta supraproductie sunt oameni desculti. Pentru ca asa e sistemul. Unii cumpara si arunca si altii umbla desculti. Nu e nevoie de ei. Pot sa si moara, nu sunt oameni daca nu sunt "human resources" de calitate. Asta a devenit omul "human resources".
QUOTE
ANN ARBOR, Mich.— For bacteria in wastewater treatment plants, the stars align perfectly to create a hedonistic mating ground for antibiotic-resistant superbugs eventually discharged into streams and lakes.
In the first known study of its kind, Chuanwu Xi of the University of Michigan School of Public Health and his team sampled water containing the bacteria Acinetobacter at five sites in and near Ann Arbor's wastewater treatment plant.
They found the so-called superbugs—bacteria resistant to multiple antibiotics—up to 100 yards downstream from the discharge point into the Huron River. Xi stresses that while the finding may be disturbing, it is important to understand that much work is still needed to assess what risk, if any, the presence of superbugs in aquatic environments poses to humans.
"We still need to understand the link between aquatic and human multiple drug resistant bacteria," said Xi, assistant professor of public health.
Xi and colleagues found that while the total number of bacteria left in the final discharge effluent declined dramatically after treatment, the remaining bacteria was significantly more likely to resist multiple antibiotics than bacteria in water samples upstream. Some strains resisted as many as seven of eight antibiotics tested. The bacteria in samples taken 100 yards downstream also were more likely to resist multiple drugs than bacteria upstream.
In the first known study of its kind, Chuanwu Xi of the University of Michigan School of Public Health and his team sampled water containing the bacteria Acinetobacter at five sites in and near Ann Arbor's wastewater treatment plant.
They found the so-called superbugs—bacteria resistant to multiple antibiotics—up to 100 yards downstream from the discharge point into the Huron River. Xi stresses that while the finding may be disturbing, it is important to understand that much work is still needed to assess what risk, if any, the presence of superbugs in aquatic environments poses to humans.
"We still need to understand the link between aquatic and human multiple drug resistant bacteria," said Xi, assistant professor of public health.
Xi and colleagues found that while the total number of bacteria left in the final discharge effluent declined dramatically after treatment, the remaining bacteria was significantly more likely to resist multiple antibiotics than bacteria in water samples upstream. Some strains resisted as many as seven of eight antibiotics tested. The bacteria in samples taken 100 yards downstream also were more likely to resist multiple drugs than bacteria upstream.
Asa. Niste stiri vesele despre "civilizatie". Unora li se pare ca "zboara spre stele" in timp ce cadem ca un bolovan.
Unii spun ca am inventat civilizatia ca sa traim mai bine. Apoi descopera ca de fapt muncim mai mult ca vanatorii culegatori. De ce oare ? Apoi ii dau cu "munca e buna". Buna la ce ? Nu pentru asta am inventat toata tehnologia asta ca sa muncim mai putin ? Dar am inventat si societatea de consum care inseamna nu sa muncim mai putin, ci sa consumam tot ce producem, si chiar daca producem mai mult decat ne trebuie - cu ajutorul noilor tehnologii, tot nu ne putem opri din munca, ca ramanem fara slujba, asa e sistemul.
In America in 1927 erau de ajuns 14% din fabrici pentru a acoperi necesarul de pantofi. Imaginati-va ce e acum. Cata munca degeaba, transformarea planetei in gunoi.
Si cu toata aceasta supraproductie sunt oameni desculti. Pentru ca asa e sistemul. Unii cumpara si arunca si altii umbla desculti. Nu e nevoie de ei. Pot sa si moara, nu sunt oameni daca nu sunt "human resources" de calitate. Asta a devenit omul "human resources".
QUOTE(jet li @ 13 May 2009, 03:00 PM)
Asa. Niste stiri vesele despre "civilizatie". Unora li se pare ca "zboara spre stele" in timp ce cadem ca un bolovan.
Omule! sincer, du-te și te-mpușcă, e calea cea mai simplă să scapi de tot dezastrul ăsta tehnologic. Sau călugărește-te la un swchit din munți. It is sooooo easy .....
Nici vorba. Scuze dar de obicei postez pe aici de la munca unde ma plictisesc asa ca ma relaxez blestemand civilizatia
Cartea Ishamel de Daniel Quinn, in romana :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7829409/Daniel-Q...Ismael-Romanian
Nu a aparut niciodata in Romania dar a tradus-o cineva pentru ca i-a placut. Si eu am citit-o prima data in engleza.
Cartea Ishamel de Daniel Quinn, in romana :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7829409/Daniel-Q...Ismael-Romanian
Nu a aparut niciodata in Romania dar a tradus-o cineva pentru ca i-a placut. Si eu am citit-o prima data in engleza.
QUOTE
— Odată, pe vremea când eram în colegiu, am început în cele din urmă, am avut de scris o lucrare pentru cursul de filosofie. Nu mai ştiu exact care era tema, dar ştiu că era ceva legat de epistemologie. Iată ce am scris în lucrarea respectivă: Ghici ce? Până la urmă, naziştii nu au pierdut războiul. L-au câştigat şi au prosperat. Au cucerit lumea şi au şters de pe faţa pământului pe toţi evreii, ţiganii, negrii, indienii şi amerindienii. Apoi, când au terminat cu asta, i-au eliminat pe ruşi şi pe polonezi şi pe cehi şi pe bulgari şi pe sârbi şi pe croaţi, pe toţi slavii. Apoi au început cu polinezienii, cu coreenii, cu chinezii şi cu japonezii, toate popoarele asiatice. Toate acestea au durat mult, foarte mult timp, dar până la urmă, când au terminat, toată lumea de pe pământ era sută la sută ariană, şi cu toţii erau foarte, foarte fericiţi.
Evident că manualele şcolare nu mai menţionau de nici o altă rasă decât de rasa ariană sau nici o altă limbă decât germana, sau nici o altă religie decât hitlerismul sau nici un alt sistem politic decât Socialismul Naţional. Nu ar fi avut nici un rost să menţioneze altceva. După câteva generaţii de astfel de viaţă, nimeni nu ar mai fi putut scrie altceva în manuale chiar dacă ar fi vrut, pentru că nu mai ştiau nimic diferit.Dar într-o bună zi, doi studenţi conversau la Universitatea Neue Heidelberg din Tokio. Ambii erau chipeşi în felul tipic arian, dar unul dintre ei arăta vag îngrijorat şi nefericit. Acesta era Kurt.
Prietenul său l-a intrebat: "Ce-i cu tine, Kurt? De ce tot timpul te plimbi pe aici aşa abătut?" Kurt a răspuns: "O să-ţi spun, Hans. E o treabă care mă tulbură şi mă tulbură profund." Prietenul său l-a întrebat ce anume. Kurt a spus: "Nu pot să scap de senzaţia ciudată că există o chestie minoră în legătură cu care suntem
minţiţi
." Şi aşa s-a terminat lucrarea.Ismael a încuvinţat din cap gânditor.
— Şi ce a spus profesorul despre lucrare?
— A vrut să ştie dacă şi eu am aceeaşi senzaţie ciudată ca şi Kurt. Când i-am spus că am, a vrut să ştie despre ce am eu impresia că sunt minţit. I-am răspuns: "Cum aş putea să ştiu? Nu sunt cu nimic mai bun decât Kurt." Bineînţeles că nu a crezut că vorbesc serios. A presupus că e doar un exercitiu de epistemologie.
— Şi încă te mai întrebi dacă eşti minţit?— Da, dar nu cu la fel de multă ardoare ca pe atunci.
— Nu cu la fel de multă ardoare? De ce?
— Fiindcă mi-am dat seama că, practic vorbind, nu prea contează. Indiferent dacă suntem minţiţi sau nu, tot trebuie să ne trezim dimineaţa şi să mergem la lucru, să plătim facturile, şi toate cele.
— Asta bineînţeles exceptând cazul în care aţi începe cu toţii să bănuiţi că sunteţi minţiţi şi aţi afla cu toţii
care este minciuna.
— Ce vrei să spui?
— Dacă doar tu ai afla care-i minciuna, atunci probabil ai dreptate că nu ar conta foarte mult. Dar dacă aţi afla cu toţii care este minciuna, ar fi de presupus că ar conta chiar foarte mult.
— Într-adevăr.
— Atunci asta trebuie să sperăm.
Începusem să întreb ce vroia să zică prin asta, dar a ridicat o mână cu piele neagră, groasă, şi a spus:
— Mâine.
Evident că manualele şcolare nu mai menţionau de nici o altă rasă decât de rasa ariană sau nici o altă limbă decât germana, sau nici o altă religie decât hitlerismul sau nici un alt sistem politic decât Socialismul Naţional. Nu ar fi avut nici un rost să menţioneze altceva. După câteva generaţii de astfel de viaţă, nimeni nu ar mai fi putut scrie altceva în manuale chiar dacă ar fi vrut, pentru că nu mai ştiau nimic diferit.Dar într-o bună zi, doi studenţi conversau la Universitatea Neue Heidelberg din Tokio. Ambii erau chipeşi în felul tipic arian, dar unul dintre ei arăta vag îngrijorat şi nefericit. Acesta era Kurt.
Prietenul său l-a intrebat: "Ce-i cu tine, Kurt? De ce tot timpul te plimbi pe aici aşa abătut?" Kurt a răspuns: "O să-ţi spun, Hans. E o treabă care mă tulbură şi mă tulbură profund." Prietenul său l-a întrebat ce anume. Kurt a spus: "Nu pot să scap de senzaţia ciudată că există o chestie minoră în legătură cu care suntem
minţiţi
." Şi aşa s-a terminat lucrarea.Ismael a încuvinţat din cap gânditor.
— Şi ce a spus profesorul despre lucrare?
— A vrut să ştie dacă şi eu am aceeaşi senzaţie ciudată ca şi Kurt. Când i-am spus că am, a vrut să ştie despre ce am eu impresia că sunt minţit. I-am răspuns: "Cum aş putea să ştiu? Nu sunt cu nimic mai bun decât Kurt." Bineînţeles că nu a crezut că vorbesc serios. A presupus că e doar un exercitiu de epistemologie.
— Şi încă te mai întrebi dacă eşti minţit?— Da, dar nu cu la fel de multă ardoare ca pe atunci.
— Nu cu la fel de multă ardoare? De ce?
— Fiindcă mi-am dat seama că, practic vorbind, nu prea contează. Indiferent dacă suntem minţiţi sau nu, tot trebuie să ne trezim dimineaţa şi să mergem la lucru, să plătim facturile, şi toate cele.
— Asta bineînţeles exceptând cazul în care aţi începe cu toţii să bănuiţi că sunteţi minţiţi şi aţi afla cu toţii
care este minciuna.
— Ce vrei să spui?
— Dacă doar tu ai afla care-i minciuna, atunci probabil ai dreptate că nu ar conta foarte mult. Dar dacă aţi afla cu toţii care este minciuna, ar fi de presupus că ar conta chiar foarte mult.
— Într-adevăr.
— Atunci asta trebuie să sperăm.
Începusem să întreb ce vroia să zică prin asta, dar a ridicat o mână cu piele neagră, groasă, şi a spus:
— Mâine.
Caldura, frig, diverse boli, ciume, invazii nomade, invazii de insecte, animale salbatice, secete, inundatii si o durata medie de viata de aproximativ 30 de ani.. o da, viata in natura suna bine. Si sa nu mai vorbim de lipsa anticonceptionalelor, diverselor "aparate si tehnici" de epilare ale femeilor sau a absorbantului.
Well, yeah... Cresterea sectorului privat inseamna cresterea economiei. Crezi ca o rata a somajului ridicata e benefica? Si conteaza ce intelegi prin "nevoie". Cine decide ce e nevoie si ce nu e nevoie? SI daca decide, ce drept are el sa le dicteze altora ce sa cumpere?Sunt incantat totusi ca nu faci apologia vreunei economii planificate. Majoritatea care au asemenea viziuni, din cate am observat, tind spre socialism. A.. si sunt incantat si ca nu ai viziuni malthusiene asupra umanitatii. Adica crezi ca e totusi nevoie de un pic de tehnologie ,cel putin deocamdata, pentru a tine o buna partea din lumea de azi in viata.
QUOTE(jet li @ 10 May 2009, 04:18 PM)
Doar ca modul in care folosim tehnologia inventata de unii ca el e intr-adevar ca toporul din mana unui criminal nebun. Taie, cumpara, arunca, si repeta. Pana nu mai ramane nimic. Nu conteaza ca nu ai nevoie de ce tocmai ai "produs". Important e sa se cumpere , cat mai mult, altfel nu ai slujba.
Well, yeah... Cresterea sectorului privat inseamna cresterea economiei. Crezi ca o rata a somajului ridicata e benefica? Si conteaza ce intelegi prin "nevoie". Cine decide ce e nevoie si ce nu e nevoie? SI daca decide, ce drept are el sa le dicteze altora ce sa cumpere?Sunt incantat totusi ca nu faci apologia vreunei economii planificate. Majoritatea care au asemenea viziuni, din cate am observat, tind spre socialism. A.. si sunt incantat si ca nu ai viziuni malthusiene asupra umanitatii. Adica crezi ca e totusi nevoie de un pic de tehnologie ,cel putin deocamdata, pentru a tine o buna partea din lumea de azi in viata.
QUOTE(jet li @ 14 May 2009, 08:23 AM)
Nici vorba. Scuze dar de obicei postez pe aici de la munca unde ma plictisesc asa ca ma relaxez blestemand civilizatia
ma si miram de cat de mult muncesti
http://www.raw-food-health.net/HunterGatherers.html
* Their work week is short enough to make us drool in envy.
* They enjoy almost unbelievable egalitarianism
* The religious gasp at their high levels of sexual freedom, experimentation, and enjoyment.
* They're damn happy people, laughing freely way more than we do.
* Outside a division of labor, women have total social equality with men.
* They rarely resort to violence or war
* Strong social safety nets in most of their societies support the disabled, old, and in many cases, even the lazy.
* They usually live to be at least as old as we do
* Their health is more robust than ours, and they're frequently immune to diseases ravaging their sedentary neighbors.
* Their social lives are rich, and they have the free time to indulge themselves.
* With a few exceptions, their lifestyle lets them live in harmony with the earth, relying mostly on renewable resources, and keeping their numbers at a sustainable level.
* Their senses appear many times sharper than their own, and many seem curiously immune to extremes of temperature.
* Their strength often seems unbelievable.
* They intelligently use their time to create more productive environments that needs little care.
Cititi tot articolul, ofera descrieri, surse si explicatii pentru toate minunile de mai sus. "Minuni" pentru sclavi ca noi. Si mai ne numim "Homo Sapiens".
* Their work week is short enough to make us drool in envy.
* They enjoy almost unbelievable egalitarianism
* The religious gasp at their high levels of sexual freedom, experimentation, and enjoyment.
* They're damn happy people, laughing freely way more than we do.
* Outside a division of labor, women have total social equality with men.
* They rarely resort to violence or war
* Strong social safety nets in most of their societies support the disabled, old, and in many cases, even the lazy.
* They usually live to be at least as old as we do
* Their health is more robust than ours, and they're frequently immune to diseases ravaging their sedentary neighbors.
* Their social lives are rich, and they have the free time to indulge themselves.
* With a few exceptions, their lifestyle lets them live in harmony with the earth, relying mostly on renewable resources, and keeping their numbers at a sustainable level.
* Their senses appear many times sharper than their own, and many seem curiously immune to extremes of temperature.
* Their strength often seems unbelievable.
* They intelligently use their time to create more productive environments that needs little care.
Cititi tot articolul, ofera descrieri, surse si explicatii pentru toate minunile de mai sus. "Minuni" pentru sclavi ca noi. Si mai ne numim "Homo Sapiens".
QUOTE
Almost universally, anthropologists remark on how ridiculously happy hunter gatherers seem to be. Laughter is far more common in their societies.
Of the !Kung: "Bursts of laughter accompany the conversations. Sometimes the !Kung laugh mildly with what we would call a sense of humor about people and events; often they shriek and howl as though laughter were an outlet for tension. They laugh at mishaps that happen to other people, like the lions eating up someone else's meat, and shriek over particularly telling and insulting sexual sallies...(15)".
Laurens van der Post expressed wonder at the exuberant San laugh, which rises "sheer from the stomach, a laugh you never hear among civilized people. (17)."
There's little wonder why. With no stressful work and plenty of time to socialize with friends and family, or engage in other pursuits they enjoy, what's not to be happy about?
Of the !Kung: "Bursts of laughter accompany the conversations. Sometimes the !Kung laugh mildly with what we would call a sense of humor about people and events; often they shriek and howl as though laughter were an outlet for tension. They laugh at mishaps that happen to other people, like the lions eating up someone else's meat, and shriek over particularly telling and insulting sexual sallies...(15)".
Laurens van der Post expressed wonder at the exuberant San laugh, which rises "sheer from the stomach, a laugh you never hear among civilized people. (17)."
There's little wonder why. With no stressful work and plenty of time to socialize with friends and family, or engage in other pursuits they enjoy, what's not to be happy about?
QUOTE
Don't let old tales of bloodthirsty natives fool you; hunter gatherers are peaceful people.
The warlike nature of Native Americans, for instance, was mostly fabricated by Europeans to legitimize conquest. Most didn't start fighting seriously until it became clear the Europeans would not be content until the natives were wiped out and they controlled all the land (30).
Homicides and suicides in hunter gatherer societies are incredibly rare (29).
The !Kung hate fighting, and think anybody who fights is rather stupid (3). The Mbuti, "look on any form of violence between one person and another with great abhorrence and distaste, and never represent it in their dancing or playacting"
The warlike nature of Native Americans, for instance, was mostly fabricated by Europeans to legitimize conquest. Most didn't start fighting seriously until it became clear the Europeans would not be content until the natives were wiped out and they controlled all the land (30).
Homicides and suicides in hunter gatherer societies are incredibly rare (29).
The !Kung hate fighting, and think anybody who fights is rather stupid (3). The Mbuti, "look on any form of violence between one person and another with great abhorrence and distaste, and never represent it in their dancing or playacting"
QUOTE(jet li @ 9 Jun 2009, 10:46 AM)
amicu din linkul de mai sus de rade cu toata mazarea rade la fel de mult ca amicul asta. asemanarea e izbitoare
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content...8/02/obama2.jpg
sa inteleg ca obama e fericit ca un bosiman desi are un giob spre deosebire de frecatorii netului si plangaciosii "iepocii de aur pierdute"?
Nu intelegi nimic. Mergi prin sate "pierdute" prin Burma, unde oamenii inca traiesc traditional, calatorii pe acolo povestesc despre cum ii intampina tot satul si toti sunt numai zambete. Nu am link acum. Oamenii aia nu poarta masti si nu se mint pe ei insisi in fiecare zi.
QUOTE(jet li @ 9 Jun 2009, 01:51 PM)
Oamenii aia nu poarta masti si nu se mint pe ei insisi in fiecare zi.
Stai sa ajunga gripa porcina pe la ei sa vezi pe urma reportaje cu sate pustii intr-o jungla care promitea atata libertate si fericire.
Jet li, eu iti multumesc pentru lupta pe care o duci tu pe forumul asta de atata timp
am deschis in sfarsit un link dat de tine, ultimul, si am gasit inspiratie
in adancul fiintei mele stiu ca instinctele nu dau gres, iar instinctele mele imi spun multe si de multe ori nu le ascult
cred ca societatea moderna poate ajunge sa combine tehnologia cu natura instinctuala a omului
ne putem folosi de tehnologie ramanand aproape de natura si urmandu-ne instinctele
munca, serviciul, jobul va fi bazat pe concepte diferite intr-un viitor mai mult sau mai putin indepartat
am deschis in sfarsit un link dat de tine, ultimul, si am gasit inspiratie
in adancul fiintei mele stiu ca instinctele nu dau gres, iar instinctele mele imi spun multe si de multe ori nu le ascult
cred ca societatea moderna poate ajunge sa combine tehnologia cu natura instinctuala a omului
ne putem folosi de tehnologie ramanand aproape de natura si urmandu-ne instinctele
munca, serviciul, jobul va fi bazat pe concepte diferite intr-un viitor mai mult sau mai putin indepartat
QUOTE(jet li @ 9 Jun 2009, 12:51 PM)
Nu intelegi nimic. Mergi prin sate "pierdute" prin Burma, unde oamenii inca traiesc traditional, calatorii pe acolo povestesc despre cum ii intampina tot satul si toti sunt numai zambete. Nu am link acum. Oamenii aia nu poarta masti si nu se mint pe ei insisi in fiecare zi.
sa vezi nemti, britanici , francezi cum merg prin sate "pierdute" prin transilvania si au aceleasi experiente "mistice". marketing.mai dau si de o oaie , capra si de un cioban mitos se intorc acasa si baga la computador un dracula 2 ca asa pica in fund de admiratie fata de plaiurile mioritice.
esti mic copil, pui botul la tot ce e pe net despre "ce bine era odata". nimeni nu te obliga sa te chinui printre noi, noi astia pierduti
QUOTE(Felina @ 9 Jun 2009, 02:02 PM)
ne putem folosi de tehnologie ramanand aproape de natura si urmandu-ne instinctele
munca, serviciul, jobul va fi bazat pe concepte diferite intr-un viitor mai mult sau mai putin indepartat
munca, serviciul, jobul va fi bazat pe concepte diferite intr-un viitor mai mult sau mai putin indepartat
nu se poate realiza ceea ce-ti doresti tu in actuala forma de civilizatie a omenirii. inca suntem tributari religiilor, care au preluat traditiile oamenilor transformandu-le in dogma. Oamenirea trebuie sa faca un salt spiritual sa se curate de credinte si cutume religioase, dar oare biserica va dori acest lucru? biserica este inca puternica si are niste arme la care nu va renunta, ignoranta, credinta, dorinta oamenilor de a se sti protejati de o forta mai mare decat puterea lor, speranta ca dupa moarte urmeaza o alta viata, stare, care in functie de pacate ii ofera muritorului un loc in iad sau rai.
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