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Dezbateri Filosofie
Acest subforum este destinat dezbaterilor filosofice. Pentru discutii religioase va initam sa vizitati subforumul Universul Credintei.
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 5 Jul 2008, 12:09 PM
Mesaj
#106
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Vornic  Grup: Membri Mesaje: 366 Inscris: 8 November 06 Forumist Nr.: 8.912  |
QUOTE(marduk @ 12 Jun 2008, 05:39 PM)  Sunt fericiti pana da o molima in ei sau in sursele de hrana, atunci sa-i vezi ce fericiti sunt. In mod cert, peste bosimani si alte comunitati egalitariste nu va da boala secolului XXI, obezitatea. Intr-adevar, cercetatorii au reusit sa demonstreze ca obezitatea, laolalta cu alte dezechilibre de nutritie si hrana, prevaleaza in tarile "dezvoltate", caracterizate de inegalitati sociale si de venit. In studiul lor "Wider income gaps, wider waistbands? An ecological study of obesity and income inequality", aparut in Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health 2005; 59:670-674, patru specialisti in epidemiologie, sanatate publica si problema obezitatii, in speta Kate E Pickett, Shona Kelly, Eric Brunner, Tim Lobstein si Richard G Wilkinson, demonstreaza ca inegalitatile socio-economice cauzeaza in randul populatiei asa-numita "boala a secolului XXI", obezitatea. Prezentare generala a studiului QUOTE "OBJECTIVES: To see if obesity, deaths from diabetes, and daily calorie intake are associated with income inequality among developed countries. DESIGN: Ecological study of 21 developed countries.Countries: Countries were eligible for inclusion if they were among the top 50 countries with the highest gross national income per capita by purchasing power parity in 2002, had a population over 3 million, and had available data on income inequality and outcome measures. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Percentage of obese (body mass index >30) adult men and women, diabetes mortality rates, and calorie consumption per capita per day. RESULTS: Adjusting for gross national per capita income, income inequality was positively correlated with the percentage of obese men (r = 0.48, p = 0.03), the percentage of obese women (r = 0.62, p = 0.003), diabetes mortality rates per 1 million people (r = 0.46, p = 0.04), and average calories per capita per day (r = 0.50, p = 0.02). Correlations were stronger if analyses were weighted for population size. The effect of income inequality on female obesity was independent of average calorie intake. CONCLUSIONS: Obesity, diabetes mortality, and calorie consumption were associated with income inequality in developed countries. Increased nutritional problems may be a consequence of the psychosocial impact of living in a more hierarchical society." Solutia pentru stoparea raspandirii acestui flagel nu poate fi decat una: punerea in practica a masurilor egalitariste de redistributie: "Public policies promoting greater equality and reducing the burden of low social status may make an important contribution to reducing and preventing obesity. Relative deprivation may influence the effectiveness of policies designed to promote good nutrition and physical activity." Studiul integral poate fi citit la: http://jech.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/59/8/670#R21 -------------------- munceste mai putin, traieste mai mult!
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6 Jul 2008, 02:17 PM
Mesaj
#107
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Cronicar Grup: Moderator Mesaje: 22.306 Inscris: 8 March 04 Din: Bucuresti Forumist Nr.: 2.507 |
Un studiu mai recent da urmatorul clasament al fericirii:
1. Danemarca 2. Elvetia 3. Austria 4. Islanda 5. Bahamas 6. Finlanda 7. Suedia 8. Bhutan 9. Brunei 10. Canda Deci in top ten sunt, cu o singura exceptie, tari bogate. Acest topic a fost editat de abis: 6 Jul 2008, 02:18 PM -------------------- |
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6 Jul 2008, 04:00 PM
Mesaj
#108
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 Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
QUOTE We never rail at the storms, the furious winds, the biting frosts and snows. To do so intensifies human futility, so whatever comes we should adjust ourselves by more effort and energy if necessary, but without complaint. Bright days and dark days are both expressions of the Great Mystery, and the Indian reveled in being close the the Great Holiness." -Chief Luther Standing Bear QUOTE When you arise in the morning, give thanks for the food and For the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, The fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and nothing, For abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision. When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes They weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." Tecumseh - Shawnee-(1768-1813) http://www.greatdreams.com/wisdom.htm Intelegeti voi astea ? Noi civilizatia moderna am luat "inelul puterii" si tinem strans de el. Suntem o adunatura de "Gollumi" fiecare in pestera lui. In orasele noastre nu avem nici urma de comunitate, suntem tinuti laolalta de politie. Daca politia ar disparea pentru o saptamana ati vedea cate aveti in comun cu omul de pe strada vecina. Cam nimic. Traim laolalta dar suntem singuri Mai exista inca societati care nu au luat acest "inel". Fie l-au respins, fie nu au avut sansa. Nu e usor sa il respingi. Sper sa vina o zi cand o sa ne dam seama ce facem. Faptul ca distrugem natura e un lucru, dar apoi distrugem si spiritul uman. http://www.highcountrypassage.com/cgi-bin/...1&storyID=8 QUOTE One of the most wonderful things about the trip was that the Pandaw II stopped at several remote villages along the Irrawaddy. The arrival of the boat was an event for the local people since they are seldom visited; at each stop, villagers would line the banks waving and laughing happily. The captain had arranged to stop at one community the boat had never visited before, and the warmth and hospitality of our hosts was overwhelming. As we walked through the village everyone greeted us, and many people, but children especially, surrounded us and walked along with the group. Little girls darted out to pick flowers to give to the women. One girl took my left hand, and another took my right; other children took other hands, and soon we were a daisy chain spanning the width of the village. And the laughter! Everyone was laughing and smiling, which of course inspired us to do the same. We spent a happy afternoon here. As the Pandaw pulled away from shore the entire village lined the banks to wave goodbye, crying "Mingalaba!" This Burmese word has no literal translation to English, but simultaneously means hello, goodbye, and we are blessed. Mingalaba. As the Pandaw followed a turn and our friends disappeared from sight, I could still hear them singing out their blessings, the word tintinnabulating in the air like bells. http://www.leelau.net/chai/burma.htm QUOTE What I found was the most authentic, untouched and traditional country in all of SE Asia. Everyday I would smile when I'd see something that reminded me of Asia in the 70s and 80s when I was a kid growing up there. Burma today resembles the Malaysia of old moreso even than Malaysia of today. So, if you want to see and feel the way Asia used to be (pre-1990s economic boom), Burma is the place.
Acest topic a fost editat de jet li: 6 Jul 2008, 04:04 PM -------------------- |
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6 Jul 2008, 04:00 PM
Mesaj
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6 Jul 2008, 04:12 PM
Mesaj
#109
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 Cel Mai Amuzant Forumist Grup: Membri Mesaje: 4.642 Inscris: 15 March 03 Din: Unde e cald si bine Forumist Nr.: 86 |
QUOTE(Helmuth @ 19 Jun 2008, 12:16 PM) Poate afecta, caci cu cat comunitatea se arata mai multumita de vanatul adus, cu atat respectivul vanator are tendinta sa se considere superior celorlalti si indinspensabil societatii. Bosimanii se feresc atat de mult de a ajunge intr-o asemenea situatie, incat prefera sa nu mai multumeasca deloc, din contra. Am convins cativa, ce-i drept, din anturaj. Nu stiu cata lumea care a citit blogul ori interventiile mele de pe forumuri a fost sau nu convinsa. Oricum, asta e o chestiune cu totul secundara, eu o sa continui sa propag adevarul indiferent de cat de multi il vor accepta sau nu.  Altu care detine adevarul....
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7 Jul 2008, 09:51 AM
Mesaj
#110
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Vornic Grup: Membri Mesaje: 366 Inscris: 8 November 06 Forumist Nr.: 8.912 |
QUOTE(abis @ 6 Jul 2008, 03:17 PM) Un studiu mai recent da urmatorul clasament al fericirii: 1. Danemarca 2. Elvetia 3. Austria 4. Islanda 5. Bahamas 6. Finlanda 7. Suedia 8. Bhutan 9. Brunei 10. Canda Deci in top ten sunt, cu o singura exceptie, tari bogate. Un clasament si mai recent include Puerto Ruco si Columbia in top ten. E de remarcat insa ca, spre diferenta de studiul New Economics Foundation (cel cu Vanuatu pe primul loc), acesta (realizat de World Values Survey) ia in considerare doar raspunsurile oamenilor la intrebari precum „cat de fericit esti?”, nu si realitati precum nivelul de poluare produs de tara respectiva. Trecand peste, Ronald Inglehart, coordonatorul de la WVS si cel care a realizat topul pe care il citezi, a explicat in nenumarate randuri ca ceea ce face ca aceste tari sa fie in top ten nu e bogatia economica, ci mai ales democratia si nivelul ridicat de toleranta. Legat de raportul dezvoltare economica-bogatie/fericire, in 1997, Inglehart scria: QUOTE The transition from a society of scarcity to a society of security brings a dramatic increase in subjective well-being. But we find a threshold at which economic growth no longer seems to increase subjective well-being significantly. This may be linked with the fact that at this level, starvation is no longer a real concern for most people. Survival begins to be taken for granted. Significant numbers of Postmaterialists begin to emerge and for them, further economic gains no longer produce an increase in subjective well-being. In 2007, el scrie: QUOTE Happiness and life satisfaction rise steeply as one moves from subsistence-level poverty to a modest level of economic security and then levels off. Among the richest societies, further increases in income are only weakly linked with higher levels of SWB. (...) Quite apart from their level of economic development, some types of societies do a better job of maximizing their citizens’ SWB than others. All 13 of the Latin American countries for which there were data showed higher levels of SWB than their economic levels would predict. http://www.psychologicalscience.org/journa...s/inglehart.pdf Ce concluzie tragem de aici? Ca dezvoltarea economica e necesara doar pana in punctul in care scoate populatie din saraciei si ii asigura un trai fara grija zilei de maine. Dincolo de acest punct, fericirea populatiei trebuie asigurata prin democratizare, toleranta, relaxare, sport, socializare, culturalizare etc. -------------------- munceste mai putin, traieste mai mult!
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7 Jul 2008, 10:15 AM
Mesaj
#111
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Cronicar Grup: Moderator Mesaje: 22.306 Inscris: 8 March 04 Din: Bucuresti Forumist Nr.: 2.507 |
QUOTE(Helmuth @ 7 Jul 2008, 10:51 AM) ia in considerare doar raspunsurile oamenilor la intrebari precum „cat de fericit esti?”, nu si realitati precum nivelul de poluare produs de tara respectiva Nu vad de ce ar fi relevant nivelul de poluare atunci cand cercetam fericirea. QUOTE eea ce face ca aceste tari sa fie in top ten nu e bogatia economica, ci mai ales democratia si nivelul ridicat de toleranta Posibil. Insa in conditiile in care societatilor respective li s-ar impune o oranduire egalitarista, democratia si toleranta ar deveni istorie. Prin urmare, si fericirea. -------------------- |
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7 Jul 2008, 11:30 AM
Mesaj
#112
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Vornic Grup: Membri Mesaje: 366 Inscris: 8 November 06 Forumist Nr.: 8.912 |
QUOTE(abis @ 7 Jul 2008, 11:15 AM) Nu vad de ce ar fi relevant nivelul de poluare atunci cand cercetam fericirea. Daca o populatie isi obtine fericirea printr-o economie ce presupune poluarea mediului, inseamna ca acea fericire nu e de durata si peste 3-4 generatii e probabil ca urmasii lor, ce traiesc intr-un mediu viciat si lipsit de resurse, sa nu mai fie la fel de multumiti. QUOTE Posibil. Insa in conditiile in care societatilor respective li s-ar impune o oranduire egalitarista, democratia si toleranta ar deveni istorie. Prin urmare, si fericirea. Esti intr-o adanca eroare. In realitate, numai egalitarismul poate garanta functionarea satisfacatoare a democratiei. Doar atunci cand fiecare vom avea aceeasi avere si aceeasi pozitie sociala, fiecare vot va conta la fel. In schimb, in sistemele ce tolereaza inegalitati, cand o minoritate detine averi incomensurabile, e clar ca aceasta poate influenta si santaja dupa bunul plac activitatea politicienilor, legiuitorilor etc. Mai mult, cand doar o parte, mica, din populatie detine mijloacele de productie, e de asteptat ca restul sa depinda de ei, sa fie fortati sa accepte la angajare conditii ce nu ii avantajeaza (deloc sau nu pe deplin), sa nu aiba un cuvant de spus in privinta activitatii desfasurate la locul de munca etc. Dupa cum spune John Myles, prof. de sociologie la U. din Toronto: QUOTE Democracy, by definition, is egalitarian (“one person, one vote”): rights are attached to people, not to their property. Markets, by contrast, are driven by inequality (“one dollar, one vote”) and, by deinition, generate more inequalities. In the 19th century, it was widely believed that mass democracy would destroy markets: the “many” would simply use their political power to expropriate the wealth of the “few” and markets would collapse. That never happened. [...] Times have changed, and as the inequality trends indicate, Canadians face new distributive challenges. This is no time to rest on the laurels of those who preceded us. The viability of our society requires efficient markets; but it also requires effective democracy." La randul sau, Frank Cunningham, care preda stiinte politice la aceeasi U din Toronto, completeaza: QUOTE "Inequality is an enemy of democracy. Autocracy is harmful to public spirit, since people understand themselves to be politically impotent. When a democratic society contains significant inequalities, it begins to resemble an autocracy. If money can determine for whom one is able to vote and dictates limits on what representatives can do once elected, understandable cynicism results and, with it, the weakening of public commitment." Pentru mult mai multe, vezi zici: Inegalitatile economice conteaza. De altfel, conform unui sondaj marca Financial Times, publicat la 19 mai 2008, marea majoritate a cetatenilor (76%-85%) inclusiv din tari dezvoltate ca Germania, Spania, Italia, China considera ca in prezent inegalitatile economice in randul societatilor sunt exagerat de mari si ca trebuie sa-i taxam mai mult pe bogatasi. Ostilitatea generala fata de inegalitati, impreuna cu tendintele de redistribuire prin intermediul taxarii progresive sunt semne ca un viraj pe plan mondial spre egalitarism devine o reala posibilitate si ca el este vointa maselor. -------------------- munceste mai putin, traieste mai mult!
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7 Jul 2008, 12:21 PM
Mesaj
#113
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Cronicar Grup: Moderator Mesaje: 22.306 Inscris: 8 March 04 Din: Bucuresti Forumist Nr.: 2.507 |
QUOTE(Helmuth @ 7 Jul 2008, 12:30 PM) Daca o populatie isi obtine fericirea printr-o economie ce presupune poluarea mediului, inseamna ca acea fericire nu e de durata si peste 3-4 generatii e probabil ca urmasii lor, ce traiesc intr-un mediu viciat si lipsit de resurse, sa nu mai fie la fel de multumiti. Cand faci un sondaj verifici nivelul actual al fericirii. Daca introduci si viitorul in ecuatie toate clasamentele sunt inutile, pentru ca sunt prea multi factori pe care nu-i poti anticipa. Spre exemplu, daca cei care traiesc in societati egalitariste vor ramane in urma cu productivitatea muncii, cu nivelul de instruire scolara, cu cercetarea stiintifica ori cu stiu eu ce altceva, in viitor vor fi mai putin fericiti. Daca cei nemultumiti cu oranduirea egalitarista vor fi trimisi la vreun soi de canal Dunare-Marea Neagra, la taiat stuf in delta ori pur si simplu lichidati, iarasi ma indoiesc ca va spori fericirea. La fel, daca intr-o societate bogata ca cele din topul mentionat de mine anterior introduci brusc egalitarismul, luand de la bogati si dand la saraci, dupa ce vei face praf astfel bunurile agoniste de primii cei din urma vor ajunge din nou la sapa de lemn, insa de data asta nu vor mai avea ce sa mai imparta, si iarasi le va scade fericirea... Nu ai cum prevedea toti factorii care intervin in evolutia fericirii viitoare, asadar sa nu speculam. QUOTE cand doar o parte, mica, din populatie detine mijloacele de productie, e de asteptat ca restul sa depinda de ei, sa fie fortati sa accepte la angajare conditii ce nu ii avantajeaza Am mai vorbit despre asta. Pe de-o parte proprietar poate fi oricine - oricine isi deschide o mica afacere ori cumpara actiuni. Pe de alta parte, exista concurenta si intre angajatori, pentru salariatii performanti. Daca esti lenes ori incapabil ar fi nedrept sa primesti acelasi venit ca cineva care performeaza in domeniul respectiv. QUOTE un viraj pe plan mondial spre egalitarism devine o reala posibilitate si ca el este vointa maselor. Sa-mi spui despre "vointa maselor" atunci cand partidele comuniste vor castiga alegerile in mod democratic, nu asa cum s-a intamplat dupa al doilea razboi mondial. -------------------- |
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7 Jul 2008, 03:21 PM
Mesaj
#114
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
Dar de o viata simpla in care sa nu comande nimeni asupra altuia ce ziceti ? Fiecare traieste cum vrea si ii lasa pe altii sa traiasca cum vor.
QUOTE Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and Demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and Its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide. Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, Even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and bow to none When you arise in the morning, give thanks for the food and For the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, The fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and nothing, For abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision. When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts Are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes They weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again In a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home. Tecumseh - Shawnee-(1768-1813) Dar vai, atunci fiecare o sa faca ce il taie capul ! Asta asa e, dupa 2000 de ani de "progres" am ajuns in stadiul asta. Fiecare om de azi e un trib separat, cu cultura si ideile proprii. Poate are si cativa apropiati care ii seamana. Nu are legatura cu ceilalti , nu ii simte ca oameni dintre care face parte de aici toate crimele de azi care in societatile primitive nu exista. Nu avem sanse sa rezolvam asta si sa revenim la o oranduire mai libera. Tot gunoiul produs prin "progres" ne-a indepartat unii de altii. Intr-adevar "lucrurile pe care le detii ajung sa te detina". Nu am nici o idee cum am putea trece peste problema asta. In insulele Maldive pana in 1960 cand India a infiintat un post de politie acolo, bastinasii nici nu auzisera de conceptul de "a fura", era de neimaginat. Triburile de indieni din America de Nord nu aveau sefi, aveau un consiliu al batranilor. Astia nu erau alesi, orice batran cu experienta putea fi in el. Apoi sfatul asta dadea sfaturi  Nu ordine, dar rareori se intampla ca razboinicii sa nu asculte de sfaturi. Si nu ii aresta nimeni pentru asta. Nimanui de acolo nu ii placea sa dea ordine altuia. Ce conceptIn afara de Comunism si Capitalism, mai e ceva. Astea sunt sisteme economice. Oamenii au trait milioane de ani fara economie si au dus-o foarte bine. Erau si mai civilizati decat noi. QUOTE Karl Marx recognized that workers without a choice are workers in chains. But his idea of breaking chains was for us to depose the pharaohs and then build the pyramids for ourselves, as if building pyramids is something we just can't stop doing, we love it so much QUOTE Because revolution in our culture has always represented an attack on hierarchy, it has always meant upheaval--literally a heaving up from below. But upheaval has no role to play in moving beyond civilization. If the plane is in trouble, you don't shoot the pilot*, you grab a parachute and jump. To overthrow the hierarchy is pointless; we just want to leave it behind.
*or yell and wave signs and write songs about what a bad job the pilot is doing (i said that) Daniel Quinn Acest topic a fost editat de jet li: 7 Jul 2008, 03:28 PM -------------------- |
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7 Jul 2008, 09:52 PM
Mesaj
#115
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 Dregator Grup: Membri Mesaje: 870 Inscris: 5 May 08 Forumist Nr.: 11.565 |
QUOTE(jet li @ 7 Jul 2008, 04:21 PM) Dar de o viata simpla in care sa nu comande nimeni asupra altuia ce ziceti ? Fiecare traieste cum vrea si ii lasa pe altii sa traiasca cum vor. nu prea merge, din pacate chiar si in societatile primitive ,si cu atit mai mult in epoca moderna, exista specializarea muncii, si asta inseamna o interdependenta mult mai mare decit s-ar putea crede asa ca, degeaba spunea cineva intr-un post mai sus cum ca daca politia ar disparea , toata societatea s/ar duce de ripa, si ca sintem foarte s\inguri in comunitatri de sute de mii de indivizi. nu e chiar asa / interdependenta loveste, si loveste rau ... -------------------- |
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7 Jul 2008, 10:32 PM
Mesaj
#116
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
QUOTE(Rovaniemi @ 7 Jul 2008, 11:52 PM) nu prea merge, din pacate chiar si in societatile primitive ,si cu atit mai mult in epoca moderna, exista specializarea muncii, si asta inseamna o interdependenta mult mai mare decit s-ar putea crede asa ca, degeaba spunea cineva intr-un post mai sus cum ca daca politia ar disparea , toata societatea s/ar duce de ripa, si ca sintem foarte s\inguri in comunitatri de sute de mii de indivizi. nu e chiar asa / interdependenta loveste, si loveste rau ... Interdependenta ? Nu am zis ca "oamenii sa nu faca nimic impreuna !". Sau crezi ca oamenii fac ceva impreuna doar cand sunt fortati ? Intr-adevar in jurul nostru asta vedem. Cum crezi ca ridicau indienii corturile din piele de bizon, inalte de 3, 4 metri ? Probabil se rugau de vecini ? Sau ii plateau ? Sau ii fortau ? Ce metode barbare Adevarul e ca erau o comunitate, ca un grup de prieteni si se ajutau intre ei. Fiecare asezare indiana numara cam 20 de familii si distanta obisnuita intre asezari era 1 km. Triburile primitive functioneaza pentru ca fiecare individ lucreaza pentru trib in orice face, si e mandru de asta. Nu il obliga nimeni. Stiati ca in caz de razboi nu te obliga nimeni sa te duci ? Si nici nu erai considerat las ? Ziceau "asa e el", si atat. Nu am ajuns la nivelul asta azi. Apoi mergand spre batalie unii se intorceau acasa. Altii continuau. Pentru ca fiecare era in stare sa gandeasca pentru el, nu formau o turma. Si in societatea noastra exista tendinta copiilor de a-si cauta un trib, de a face parte din ceva pentru care sa "lucreze" , sa simta ca are o importanta undeva. Ce ii oferim ? Bani. Nu un trib. Si astfel intentiile lui bune dispar ajunge lacom si nepasator. Si de fapt cui ii pasa de el ? E doar unul im plus la marea gramada care suntem - nu avem nici o unitate. Sper ca intelegeti ca eu vorbesc aici despre viata oamenilor de atunci. Nu imi spuneti ce avantaje a adus tehnologia. Singurele valori, valabile si azi, si care se observa in cazul unui dezastru sunt prietenii si familia. Viata moderna le distruge. Acest topic a fost editat de jet li: 7 Jul 2008, 10:36 PM -------------------- |
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8 Jul 2008, 01:11 AM
Mesaj
#117
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 Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 6.255 Inscris: 3 October 03 Forumist Nr.: 899 |
QUOTE(jet li @ 7 Jul 2008, 11:32 PM) Interdependenta ? Nu am zis ca "oamenii sa nu faca nimic impreuna !". Sau crezi ca oamenii fac ceva impreuna doar cand sunt fortati ? Intr-adevar in jurul nostru asta vedem. Cum crezi ca ridicau indienii corturile din piele de bizon, inalte de 3, 4 metri ? Probabil se rugau de vecini ? Sau ii plateau ? Sau ii fortau ? Ce metode barbare Indienii de care vorbesti erau in stare sa inalnte corturi din piele de bizon, iar societatea vestica actuala e in stare sa construiasca poduri de kilometrii si inalte de sute de metrii, sa construiasca cladiri de aproape un km, sa ajunga pe luna, etc, etc. Fiecare dupa posibilitati 
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9 Jul 2008, 12:35 AM
Mesaj
#118
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 Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 4.405 Inscris: 16 May 04 Din: Bucuresti, the belly of heck Forumist Nr.: 3.508 |
QUOTE Ce ii oferim ? Bani. Nu un trib. Si astfel intentiile lui bune dispar ajunge lacom si nepasator. Si de fapt cui ii pasa de el ? E doar unul im plus la marea gramada care suntem - nu avem nici o unitate. Ei nu e nici un trib? Dar galeriile de fotbal, stilurile de viata care rezulta din stilurile muzicale? Moda? Astea nu sunt oare tot niste forme de a apartine unui trib? -------------------- |
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9 Jul 2008, 10:38 AM
Mesaj
#119
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
QUOTE(Blakut @ 9 Jul 2008, 02:35 AM) Ei nu e nici un trib? Dar galeriile de fotbal, stilurile de viata care rezulta din stilurile muzicale? Moda? Astea nu sunt oare tot niste forme de a apartine unui trib? Ba da. E dorinta natural a oamenilor de a simti ca fac parte dintr-un grup. Dar totul dureaza cateva ore pe saptamana , un fel de "medicament" pentru suflet. Un trib adevarat trebuie sa dureze tot timpul. Ai vazut filmul Fight Club ? Cam asa e si cu triburile astea moderne -------------------- |
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18 Jul 2008, 12:51 AM
Mesaj
#120
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 6.255 Inscris: 3 October 03 Forumist Nr.: 899 |
http://miniamericanflags.deviantart.com/ar...ialism-48578733 :
 Socialism is a system that depends on all individuals agreeing to work towards the common good of its community. This system is only possible if everyone cooperates willingly. Unfortunately for you there are individuals, like me, who disagree to work towards the good of the community. I wish to work to further my own selfish desires. There are only a couple of options for socialism to work. One is to form a small commune of individuals who agree with socialism, and all work towards the good of one another without interfering with the rest of society. The other option is to create a government system that forces individuals to comply with your philosophy. Any system, such as this, would have to force every individual to work for the good of everyone else. It is your individual choice if you wish to live your life for others, this is a right that is only taken away by force. Those of you who hold socialism as your own personal credo, you are not a concern. But those of you who use the government to force your ideals on others, listen well. We will not let you rob and steal without exposing your ideology for what it really is: slavery. -------------------- Azi avem.
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18 Jul 2008, 11:52 PM
Mesaj
#121
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
O poza cu un om cu o punga cu bani si unu care il impusca
Uite ce cred eu despre punga cu bani :QUOTE Milarepa's Last Testament as told by Lama Surya Das After the enlightened cave-yogi and songmaster Milarepa left this world, a scrap of rice paper was found inscribed with his handwriting. His ascetic followers were astounded, for it stated that beneath a nearby boulder was buried all the gold that ascetic Mila had hoarded during his life. A few eager disciples dug around and under that large rock. In the earth they discovered a ragged cloth bundle. Opening the knotted bundle with shaking hands, they discovered only a lump of dried shit. There was another scribbled note as well. It said: "If you understand my teaching so little that you actually believed I ever valued or hoarded gold, you are truly heirs to my shit." The note was signed "The Laughing Vajra, Milarepa." http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/story/index.html Apoi nu am de gand sa impun nici un sistem. -------------------- |
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19 Jul 2008, 10:30 AM
Mesaj
#122
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 6.255 Inscris: 3 October 03 Forumist Nr.: 899 |
Tu ai inteles fix nimic din ce am postat. Ideea e ca socialismul nu-si poate impune principiile (altfel decat in grupuri mici, in care oamenii au optat pentru stilul acela de viata) decat prin forta. Pentru ca tot timpul exista oameni mai capabili decat altii sa-si asigure un trai material decent si acestia nu vor dori sa imparta rezultatele muncii lor si cu lenesii, prostii, etc, etc.
-------------------- Azi avem.
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25 Jul 2008, 07:42 PM
Mesaj
#123
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 Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.928 Inscris: 4 December 06 Forumist Nr.: 9.039 |
QUOTE(jet li @ 10 Jun 2008, 10:34 AM) Cred ca daca am avea acelas fel de a ne purta intre noi ca si bosimanii am fi mult mai castigati Exemplul dat de tine mi s-a parut zuperb...intr-adevar, avem ce invata de la ei in privinta asta. Problema e ca nu doar ne lasam cuprinsi de mandrie, dar nici macar nu vrem sa renuntam la ea. O data ce un om devine constient de EGO ul sau si vede ca il impiedica sa invete a iubi neconditionat, va dori sa scape de el... Va mai vedea ca mandria aduce cu sine invidia, care genereaza ura, suferinta etc. |
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28 Jul 2008, 09:17 PM
Mesaj
#124
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
QUOTE People are fascinated to learn why a pride of lions works, why a troop of baboons works, or why a flock of geese works, but they often resist learning why a tribe of humans works. Tribal humans were successful on this planet for three million years before our agricultural revolution, and they’re no less successful today wherever they manage to survive untouched, but many people of our culture don’t want to hear about it. In fact, they’ll vigorously deny it. If you explain to them why a herd of elephants works or why a hive of bees works, they have no problem. But if you try to explain why a tribe of humans works, they accuse you of “idealizing” them. From the point of view of ethology or evolutionary biology, however, the success of humans in tribes is no more an idealization than the success of bison in herds or whales in pods. Our cultural excuse for failure is that humans are just “naturally” flawed—greedy, selfish, short-sighted, violent, and so on, which means anything you do with them will fail. In order to validate that excuse, people want tribalism to be a failure. For this reason, to people who want to uphold our cultural mythology, any suggestion that tribalism was successful is perceived as a threat. Daniel Quinn in "Beyond Civilization" Exact asa zic si eu Acest topic a fost editat de jet li: 28 Jul 2008, 09:19 PM -------------------- |
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28 Jul 2008, 09:24 PM
Mesaj
#125
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 6.255 Inscris: 3 October 03 Forumist Nr.: 899 |
Ia zi, ai gasit forumisti pentru intalnirea ta forumistica? Mentionasei tu mai demult asta... ziceai ca vrei sa discuti despre peak oil...
-------------------- Azi avem.
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28 Jul 2008, 09:39 PM
Mesaj
#126
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
QUOTE(axel @ 28 Jul 2008, 11:24 PM) Ia zi, ai gasit forumisti pentru intalnirea ta forumistica? Mentionasei tu mai demult asta... ziceai ca vrei sa discuti despre peak oil... N am gasit. Alte intalniri forumistice mai sunt ? QUOTE Our culture has been conspicuously successful, in the sense that it has overrun the world. For most of our history, this success was perceived as merely an inevitability, the working out of human destiny. People no more wondered about it than they wondered about gravity. When Europeans “discovered” the New World, they considered it a sacred duty to take it over. The people who were already living there were just in the way, like trees or rocks or wild animals. They had no real business being there, as we did. For us to take over this hemisphere was just part of the larger plan (presumably God’s plan) for us to take over the entire world. That we wereable to overrun this hemisphere (and indeed the entire world) came as no surprise to us. This is simply what wasmeant to be, so naturally itcame to be. No one is amazed when clouds produce rain. Before Newton, people didn’t wonder why unsupported objects are compelled to fall to the ground. They just figured, what elsecould they do? Theyhave to fall to the ground, and that’s that. Our historians have always been in the same condition when it comes to our tremendous cultural success. They don’t wonder why we were compelled to take over the world. They just figure, what elsecould we have done? Wehad to take over the world, and that’s that. QUOTE No paradigm is ever able to imagine the next one. It’s almost impossible for one paradigm to imagine that there will evenbe a next one. The people of the Middle Ages didn’t think of themselves as being in the “middle” of anything at all. As far as they were concerned, the way they were living was the way people would be living till the end of time. Even if you’d managed to persuade them that a new era was just around the corner, they would’ve been unable to tell you a single thing about it—and in particular they wouldn’t have been able to tell you what was going to make itnew. If they’d been able to describe the Renaissance in the fourteenth century, it would havebeen the Renaissance. We’re no different. For all our blather of new paradigms and emerging paradigms, it’s an unassailable assumption among us that our distant descendants will be just exactly like us. Their gadgets, fashions, music, and so on, will surely be different, but we’re confident that their mindset will be identical—because we can imagine no other mindset for people to have. But in fact, if we actually manage to survive here, it will be because we’ve moved into a new era as different from ours as the Renaissance was from the Middle Ages—and as unimaginable to us as the Renaissance was to the Middle Ages. Tot din cartea aceea, daca o vrea cineva dat mi un email unde sa o trimit -------------------- |
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28 Jul 2008, 09:50 PM
Mesaj
#127
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 6.255 Inscris: 3 October 03 Forumist Nr.: 899 |
QUOTE(jet li @ 28 Jul 2008, 10:39 PM) N am gasit. Alte intalniri forumistice mai sunt ? Mai sint. Dar ma indoiesc ca esti invitat. Nu cred ca vrea cineva sa te auda propavaduind peak oil doom. Seamana prea mult cu Martorii lui Iehova 
-------------------- Azi avem.
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28 Jul 2008, 10:18 PM
Mesaj
#128
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
Ma invit singur
Nu mai propovaduiesc peak oil doom, oamenii se schimba Spre deosebire de ce vezi aici, in afara forumului sunt cel mai tacut om si nu poti sa afli nimic de la mine. E o iluzie ca as putea semana cu un martor a lui Iehova, dar nu se stie poate devin Invitati ma ! Vreau o invitatie !
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29 Jul 2008, 07:23 PM
Mesaj
#129
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
"People who dislike what I’m saying will challenge me this way: “If you’re so crazy about the tribal life,
why don’t you get a spear and go live in a cave?” The tribal life isn’t about spears and caves or about hunting and gathering. Hunting and gathering is a lifestyle, an occupation, a way of making a living. A tribe isn’t a particular occupation; it’s a social organization that facilitates making a living. Where they’re still allowed to, gypsies live in tribes, but they’re obviously not hunter-gatherers. Similarly, circus people live in tribes—but again, obviously, they’re not hunter-gatherers. Until recent decades there were many forms of traveling shows that were tribal in organization—theatrical troupes, carnivals, and so on. " Daniel Quinn - Beyond Civilization Dupa cum se vede omul asta explica mai bine ca mine Acest topic a fost editat de jet li: 29 Jul 2008, 07:24 PM -------------------- |
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30 Jul 2008, 07:55 AM
Mesaj
#130
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 4.405 Inscris: 16 May 04 Din: Bucuresti, the belly of heck Forumist Nr.: 3.508 |
QUOTE Hunting and gathering is a lifestyle, an occupation, a way of making a living. A tribe isn’t a particular occupation; it’s a social organization that facilitates making a living. Ok. Atunci spune-mi cum se traieste viata de vanator culegator in zilele noastre? -------------------- |
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30 Jul 2008, 11:39 AM
Mesaj
#131
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
Blakut stii engleza ? Ai citit ce am scris mai sus ? Tribul e un grup de oameni care lucreaza impreuna pt a supravietui. Nu din "comunism" ci pt ca asa vor, sa zicem ca sunt prieteni. Nu prea mai vezi asa ceva azi
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31 Jul 2008, 01:38 PM
Mesaj
#132
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 4.405 Inscris: 16 May 04 Din: Bucuresti, the belly of heck Forumist Nr.: 3.508 |
QUOTE Tribul e un grup de oameni care lucreaza impreuna pt a supravietui. Nu din "comunism" ci pt ca asa vor, sa zicem ca sunt prieteni. Pai ori una ori alta: ori ca sa supravietuiasca, ori pentru ca asa vor. Daca vrei, orasele sunt grupuri de oameni care lucreaza impreuna ca sa supravietuiasca si pentru a trai mai bine. Asa ca sunt curios: ce schimbari concrete propui? -------------------- |
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1 Aug 2008, 01:33 AM
Mesaj
#133
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Vornic Grup: Membri Mesaje: 366 Inscris: 8 November 06 Forumist Nr.: 8.912 |
QUOTE(axel @ 18 Jul 2008, 01:51 AM) De fapt poza corecta e cea de jos:  Ca asa este, am explicat inclusiv in clipul meu, "Capitalism is only for the rich": http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vBC97SUargU -------------------- munceste mai putin, traieste mai mult!
Fericire fara bani |
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1 Aug 2008, 02:05 AM
Mesaj
#134
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 4.405 Inscris: 16 May 04 Din: Bucuresti, the belly of heck Forumist Nr.: 3.508 |
Ce motiv ar avea bogatul sa il impuste in cap pe sarac, din moment ce el oricum are bani? Nici unul...
Nu trebuia sa zici ca "Capitalism is only for the rich". Everything is for the rich... asa a fost mereu. ah, unul din comentariile (de fapt multe din comentariile de la videoclipul tau) erau de genul throw the rich down the well, kill the rich etc. Se cam potriveste prima poza. Sunteti o gasca de criminali  ...
Acest topic a fost editat de Blakut: 1 Aug 2008, 02:11 AM -------------------- |
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15 Aug 2008, 01:36 PM
Mesaj
#135
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 1.196 Inscris: 31 January 04 Din: ae Forumist Nr.: 2.045 |
Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents. Without a prison, there can be no delinquents. We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves. When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket, he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift. We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property. We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being was not determined by his wealth. We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians, therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another. We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society. John (Fire) Lame Deer Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976 We do not want schools.... they will teach us to have churches. We do not want churches.... they will teach us to quarrel about God. We do not want to learn that. We may quarrel with men sometimes about things on this earth, but we never quarrel about God. We do not want to learn that. Heinmot Tooyalaket ( Chief Joseph), Nez Perce Leader http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/quotes-nativeamerican.htm -------------------- |
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20 Aug 2008, 12:27 PM
Mesaj
#136
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Vornic Grup: Membri Mesaje: 366 Inscris: 8 November 06 Forumist Nr.: 8.912 |
QUOTE(Blakut @ 1 Aug 2008, 03:05 AM) Ce motiv ar avea bogatul sa il impuste in cap pe sarac, din moment ce el oricum are bani? Nici unul... Banii se fac pe spinarea celor multi si saraci. Ai auzit vreodata de sweatshops? Pt. mai multe detalii, vizioneaza cel mai recent clip al meu, Capitalism is exploitation and consumerism. -------------------- munceste mai putin, traieste mai mult!
Fericire fara bani |
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20 Aug 2008, 04:38 PM
Mesaj
#137
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Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 4.405 Inscris: 16 May 04 Din: Bucuresti, the belly of heck Forumist Nr.: 3.508 |
QUOTE Pt. mai multe detalii, vizioneaza cel mai recent clip al meu, Capitalism is exploitation and consumerism. Inafara de videoclipuri mai stii sa faci ceva? Iti priesc tehnologia si apucaturile consumeriste vad. Treci la actiune macar, fa ceva practic, ca m-ai convins ca nu vrei sa mergi sa traiesti alaturi de bosimani. -------------------- |
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20 Aug 2008, 05:18 PM
Mesaj
#138
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Cronicar Grup: Moderator Mesaje: 22.306 Inscris: 8 March 04 Din: Bucuresti Forumist Nr.: 2.507 |
In videoclip ii deplangea pe unii care castiga, lucrand la Nike ori la alta firma occidentala, cate 2 dolari pe zi, pe cand costul vietii este de sase. Probabil ca ar prefera ca Nike sa-si ia jucariile si sa plece, iar respectivii sa nu mai castige nimic.
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21 Aug 2008, 10:44 AM
Mesaj
#139
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 From Cooca Macaii Grup: Moderator Mesaje: 7.228 Inscris: 3 March 04 Din: Pe luna Forumist Nr.: 2.443 |
QUOTE(Blakut @ 1 Aug 2008, 03:05 AM) Ce motiv ar avea bogatul sa il impuste in cap pe sarac, din moment ce el oricum are bani? Nici unul... Exact, nici unul! O vorba batraneasca spune "Eu domn, tu domn, da' caii la apa cine ii da?" Hlemuth, cheltuielile pe care le-ai avut cu clipurile mai bine le donai la o organizatie de ajutorare a oamenilor saraci. Asa puteai face diferenta!
-------------------- Sometimes, the majority only means that all the fools are on the same side.
If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people! Don't pray in my school, and I won't think in your church! Ziarul de Rimnic |
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21 Aug 2008, 12:06 PM
Mesaj
#140
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Vornic Grup: Membri Mesaje: 366 Inscris: 8 November 06 Forumist Nr.: 8.912 |
In acea poza bogatul nu il impusca pe sarac, ci il ameninta. Mesajul este ca bogatii au puterea de a-i asupri pe ceilalti pt. a-si atinge scopurile. Profiturile realizate de marile firme capitaliste in swetshops-urile din tari precum Haiti, El Salvador, China, Bangladesh, Indonezia etc. sunt graitoare. Profiturile mari inseamna forta de munca ieftina: cresterea profiturilor = scaderea salariilor, vezi si cazul Nokia de la noi.
Nike nu are niciun motiv sa plece caci are mult mai mult de castigat din acele „locuri de munca” decat muncitorii (sclavii) de acolo. De aceea atata timp cat capitalismul exista, miliarde de oameni vor trai sub pragul saraciei lucii, caci acestia se vor multumi cu foarte putin in schimbul unei cantitati imense de munca, in conditii inumane. Solutia nu e sa apelam la „bunavointa” firmelor ca Nike, Disney, Gap ori Ikea, ci sa sa-i expropriem pe patronii lor iar cu acesti bani sa fie asigurate locuri de munca decente in zonele defavorizate de azi. O asemenea strategie e justificata nu doar de exploatarea crunta la care finanta i-a supus pe cei de acolo si de efectele pozitive ale egalitarismului, ci si de faptul ca tarile sarace sufera cel mai mult de pe urma poluarii produse de cele bogate. Vezi Consumerismul bogatilor, moartea saracilor si Tarile bogate le dauneaza celor sarace . @Cucu Mucu De ajutat eu ajut constant saracii, insa ce cheltuieli ai tu impresia ca am avut ca sa fac acele clipuri?! -------------------- munceste mai putin, traieste mai mult!
Fericire fara bani |
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Versiune Text-Only | Data este acum: 28 April 2024 - 09:37 AM |