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> Cum Ar Fi Sa Nu Existe Ue?
nefertiti-old
mesaj 8 Nov 2005, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE
si uite si o tema interesanta de discutie: de ce credeti ca ar fi mai bine sa se destrame UE?



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Leonardo
mesaj 15 Nov 2005, 11:09 AM
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Achernar si Mia:

In primul rand absolutizati ceea ce am spus eu; nu am afirmat niciodata ca tarile in discutie au fost readuse pe linia de plutire numai si numai ajutoarelor externe (inclusiv Germania/Europa la Planul marchall). Ca dupa ce le-au primit toti au inceput sa le gaseasca prea mici si fara importanta asta tine de latura umana. Daca le considerai inutile ba chiar paguboase trebuia sa le respingi de la inceput.
Vorbim de ajutoare pentru dezvoltare si nu de pomeni care sa te tina in viata fara ca tu sa faci altceva.
Cuvantul 'marasm' l-am folosit pentru Portugalia, Spania si era un termen literar pentru a sugera cresterea evidenta obtinuta de aceste tari in urma aderarii. Nu inseamna ca era teren nelocuit inainte.

Revenind la fondurile de preaderare sigur ca poti sa le consideri neglijabile daca le iei ca sume in valoare absoluta.
Desi si asta e discutabil, aduceti-va aminte cat de greu se obtineau imprumuturi fmi de 100 si ceva mil. Euro anual si in ce conditii impuse. Nu e asa de simplu pentru o tara cu cartea de vizita a Romaniei de azi sa obtina vreun imprumut mai considerabil pe piata bancara fara conditii excesive.

Tarile ce au beneficiat de fondurile de preaderare au beneficiat pe langa banii alocati si de niste directii gata facute pentru a se dezvolta. Banii astia au fost directati spre anumite domenii. Sigur ca depinde in mare masura de tara daca vrea cu adevarat asta, altfel putem discuta la nesfarsit de utilitatea unor pomeni catre cineva care se incapataneaza sa le pape si sa ramana tot in jeg. Fondurile astea vin ca sa te ajute sa faci ceea ce oricum trebuie: sa-ti modernizezi infrastructura nationala. Normal ca restul trebuie sa faci tu care traiesti aici.
Doi la mana faptul ca esti tara membra/in curs de aderare iti creste credibilitatea pe piata financiara unde poti sa obtii si imprumuturi directe cu conditii mai prietenoase. Faptul ca esti in zona UE creste aportul de investitii directe din tarile membre. Toate astea nu mi se par de neglijat si inseamna tot bani si dezvoltare pentru noi.

Revenind la tarile nou membre aportul investitional dinspre tarile UE este destul de important. Sigur ca asta e in beneficiul companiilor care investesc, nimeni nu se baga sa piarda, dar asta inseamna locuri de munca pe plan local, inseamna dezvoltarea unor industrii orizontale, inseamna incredere pentru altii ca sa vina si ei, inseamna crestere de nivel de trai. Inclusiv companiile mari din afara UE ce investesc in aceste tari au in vedere piata europeana, nu numai pe cea locala.

Pentur mine toate astea sunt avantaje majore si in cazul special al Romaniei esentiale pentru a se dezvolta mai rapid. Teoretic mi-ar place sa fim Elvetia estului cu capitala la Micul Paris. Dar astea-s teorii pe care sunt convins ca nu le vom aplica niciodata de unii singuri.




In final un pic despre fondurile alocate noua care mie nu mi se par neglijabile intru totul, nu atat ca suma ci si ca domenii sprijinite:

"FINANCIAL FRAMEWORK
Support from the Phare programme and other pre-accession instruments is focused on the Accession Partnership priorities. The total volume of pre-accession assistance available to Romania for 2004 (around EUR 825 million) is substantial and increasing: EUR 405.3 million for the national Phare programme, EUR 158.7 million for Sapard and between EUR 289 million and EUR 343 million for Ispa.

Phare

Under the Phare programme , Romania received EUR 2.1 billion for the period 1992-2003, of which EUR 283 million for 2003. The economic and social cohesion subprogramme of the 2004 National Phare programme will be allocated about EUR 160 million, about 40% of the total Phare budget in 2004. This is an increase on the 2003 allocation of EUR 48 million.

The 2004 Phare programme focuses on the following priorities:

Political criteria: emphasis is put on multiannual programmes to strengthen administrative and judicial capacity, support minorities and civil society, fight corruption and fraud, improve prison conditions and strengthen police cooperation (EUR 50 million).
Economic criteria: substantial further assistance is provided for the creation of a unified, efficient and adequate land registration system as the basis for Community support (e.g. in agriculture) and also for ensuring the safety of investments (EUR 4.5 million). Meeting the obligations of membership: twinning, technical assistance and investment projects are carried out principally in four priority areas, namely public finance, agriculture, environment and border management, also subject to multiannual programming. Further areas will be covered specifically under the 2004 budget: internal market, competition, statistics, social policy and employment, energy, transport, consumer protection, justice and home affairs and the audiovisual sector (EUR 155.4 million).
Economic and social cohesion: support is provided in close conjunction with the three-year National Development Plan (NDP) adopted by the Romanian Government in December 2003 (EUR 160.1 million).
In addition, EUR 28 million of the programme will be devoted to cross-border cooperation programmes on Romania's borders with Hungary (EUR 5 million), Bulgaria (EUR 8 million), Moldova (EUR 5 million), Serbia & Montenegro (EUR 4 million) and Ukraine (EUR 6 million).

Pre-accession aid

Aid for agricultural and rural development ( SAPARD ) and a structural instrument ( ISPA ) giving priority to measures in the transport and environmental sectors were introduced in 2000. The Regulation coordinating aid under Phare, SAPARD and ISPA, adopted in June 1999, enables the Commission to carry out a posteriori monitoring of contracts where it considers the financial control in the partner country to be deficient.

The total financial aid made available between 2000 and 2002 was EUR 1 890 billion, of which EUR 242 million under Phare, EUR 150 million under SAPARD; and between EUR 208 and EUR 270 million under ISPA. SAPARD 2003 allocated around EUR 162.2 million to Romania. The envelope agreed under ISPA for the same year was EUR 255.1 million.

The Community allocated EUR 158.7 million for implementation of the SAPARD programme in Romania in 2004. The main focus of the 2004 SAPARD programme is to increase the absorption and especially the use of the 2000 financial allocations, since any unused funds are due to be decommitted by the end of 2004. In December 2003 the SAPARD Agency was accredited for the implementation of the following three additional measures: "Investments in agricultural holdings", "Development and diversification of economic activities, multiple activities and alternative income" and "Improving vocational training". With this accreditation the Agency will manage 80% of the amount available for Romania under the programme.

ISPA programming is governed by the national strategy papers for transport and the environment, which the Romanian authorities finalised in 2000. The strategies for these two sectors are currently under revision. The strategic objectives in the field of transport are intended to address serious weaknesses in the network of roads and railways and are focused on the modernisation of the trans-European corridors crossing the country. Other priorities are dealing with increased traffic levels around urban areas and developing the use of waterways. In 2004, a total commitment of EUR 272.3 million was approved, in support of both transport (EUR 149.6 million) and environmental projects (EUR 122.7 million). "

Leonardo, iti adresez aceeasi rugaminte pe care i-am adresat-o mai sus lui Achernar...

Acest topic a fost editat de abis: 15 Nov 2005, 12:03 PM


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nefertiti-old   Cum Ar Fi Sa Nu Existe Ue?   8 Nov 2005, 04:37 PM
Leonardo   UE cred ca e cea mai vizionara idee la ora actuala...   9 Nov 2005, 10:40 AM
tihomir   QUOTE Daca nu ar fi UE: - nici o tara europeana lu...   10 Nov 2005, 02:49 PM
Leonardo   Toate tarile intrate in UE in valul din 2004 au in...   10 Nov 2005, 03:11 PM
tihomir   In Ungaria a fost distrusa agricultura dupa aderar...   10 Nov 2005, 03:27 PM
Leonardo   -"in Ungaria a fost distrusa agricultura...   10 Nov 2005, 03:39 PM
abis   QUOTE (tihomir @ 10 Nov 2005, 03:27 PM) In Ungaria...   10 Nov 2005, 03:44 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 10 Nov 2005, 03:11 PM) Toate tar...   10 Nov 2005, 05:22 PM
abis   QUOTE (MIA @ 10 Nov 2005, 05:22 PM) pur si simplu ...   10 Nov 2005, 05:27 PM
MIA   QUOTE (abis @ 10 Nov 2005, 05:27 PM) Nu am spus ca...   10 Nov 2005, 05:42 PM
tihomir   Polonia are probleme economice dupa aderare o spun...   10 Nov 2005, 11:59 PM
Achernar   Nici chiar asa. De fapt - la nivel national - dupa...   11 Nov 2005, 01:48 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Achernar @ 11 Nov 2005, 01:48 PM) Daca inai...   11 Nov 2005, 02:22 PM
tihomir   QUOTE De fapt - la nivel national - dupa aderare c...   11 Nov 2005, 03:59 PM
abis   E crestere, dar e mai mica decat inainte. E ca si ...   11 Nov 2005, 04:02 PM
tihomir   Deci daca cresterea de 10% era fireasca nu inseamn...   11 Nov 2005, 04:33 PM
MIA   QUOTE (tihomir @ 11 Nov 2005, 03:59 PM) QUOTE De f...   11 Nov 2005, 04:54 PM
Leonardo   cresterea economica e mai mica si datorita faptulu...   11 Nov 2005, 05:05 PM
abis   Leonardo, Unde ai fost, frate, cand am avut dezba...   11 Nov 2005, 05:10 PM
Leonardo   problema e ca n-am fost...aici data viitoare...   11 Nov 2005, 05:11 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 11 Nov 2005, 05:05 PM) cres...   11 Nov 2005, 05:30 PM
Leonardo   Mia iti dau dreptate...dar asta e un efect pe term...   11 Nov 2005, 05:59 PM
Achernar   1. Da. 'Banii primiti de la UE'. Stii ce e...   12 Nov 2005, 09:44 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Achernar @ 12 Nov 2005, 09:44 PM) Ca idee v...   13 Nov 2005, 09:54 AM
Leonardo   1. Pe langa fondurile puse la dispozitie si depede...   14 Nov 2005, 04:01 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 14 Nov 2005, 04:01 PM) E ca...   14 Nov 2005, 04:34 PM
Leonardo   Mia: poti sa spui dar nu stiu daca poti sa sustii ...   14 Nov 2005, 05:30 PM
MIA   Păi să o luăm pe rānd, de la coad...   14 Nov 2005, 09:40 PM
Achernar   Perioada 1990 - 1998 (9 ani), fonduri PHARE. Prima...   15 Nov 2005, 01:22 AM
Leonardo   Achernar si Mia: In primul rand absolutizati cee...   15 Nov 2005, 11:09 AM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 15 Nov 2005, 11:09 AM) Fondurile...   15 Nov 2005, 12:02 PM
MIA   QUOTE In primul rand absolutizati ceea ce am spus...   15 Nov 2005, 12:10 PM
Achernar   Comert exterior in Europa, 2005, semestrul 1 Coloa...   15 Nov 2005, 12:52 PM
Leonardo   Mia: imi mentin comparatia desi nu pot sa dau proc...   15 Nov 2005, 01:28 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 15 Nov 2005, 01:28 PM) Repet ce ...   15 Nov 2005, 01:55 PM
Achernar   1. Sper ca e destul de evident faptul ca UE nu alo...   15 Nov 2005, 02:18 PM
abis   MIA, Eu nu inteleg - si nu am inteles nici cand n...   15 Nov 2005, 02:18 PM
MIA   QUOTE (abis @ 15 Nov 2005, 02:18 PM) MIA, Eu nu i...   15 Nov 2005, 02:39 PM
abis   Vezi ca nu e 2005... Ce anume ar trebui schimbat...   15 Nov 2005, 02:49 PM
Achernar   De fapt daca ar fi vorba de UE din perioada 2000 -...   15 Nov 2005, 03:00 PM
MIA   QUOTE (abis @ 15 Nov 2005, 02:49 PM) Vezi ca nu e ...   15 Nov 2005, 03:13 PM
Leonardo   QUOTE (Achernar @ 15 Nov 2005, 03:00 PM) De fapt d...   15 Nov 2005, 06:05 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 15 Nov 2005, 06:05 PM) Fiind vor...   15 Nov 2005, 09:46 PM
Leonardo   Tranzitia lor este legata de tranzitia catre UE, c...   15 Nov 2005, 09:59 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 15 Nov 2005, 09:59 PM) Tranzitia...   15 Nov 2005, 10:22 PM
Achernar   Pentru tarile dezvoltate nu e vorba de un soc semn...   16 Nov 2005, 11:56 AM
MIA   QUOTE (Achernar @ 16 Nov 2005, 11:56 AM) In ceea c...   16 Nov 2005, 01:22 PM
abis   MIA si Achernar: Voi tot dati inainte cu teorii g...   16 Nov 2005, 02:17 PM
Achernar   Pai nu e clar ? Romania se afla in situatia unui c...   16 Nov 2005, 02:51 PM
abis   QUOTE (Achernar @ 16 Nov 2005, 02:51 PM) Teoretic ...   16 Nov 2005, 03:15 PM
MIA   QUOTE (abis @ 16 Nov 2005, 03:15 PM) Nu exista mec...   16 Nov 2005, 03:42 PM
Achernar   @ abis E ceva mai complicat. Cazul 'Romania...   16 Nov 2005, 03:58 PM
abis   QUOTE (MIA @ 16 Nov 2005, 03:42 PM) Un stat nu poa...   16 Nov 2005, 06:02 PM
Achernar   Cum sa ne lase pe-afara ? Nu-ti zisei cum devine c...   17 Nov 2005, 11:40 AM
abis   QUOTE (Achernar @ 17 Nov 2005, 11:40 AM) Cum sa ne...   17 Nov 2005, 12:02 PM
Achernar   1. Prin mecanisme de acelasi tip cu cele folosite ...   17 Nov 2005, 01:01 PM
abis   QUOTE (Achernar @ 17 Nov 2005, 01:01 PM) 1. Prin m...   17 Nov 2005, 02:42 PM
Achernar   1. Ala de aderare a RoBulgariei la UE. Vezi anexel...   17 Nov 2005, 04:13 PM
abis   QUOTE (Achernar @ 17 Nov 2005, 04:13 PM) 1. Ala de...   17 Nov 2005, 05:22 PM
Achernar   1. Poti sa stii cat de exceptionala va fi situatia...   18 Nov 2005, 10:59 AM
MIA   QUOTE (Achernar @ 17 Nov 2005, 11:40 AM) Nu te baz...   18 Nov 2005, 11:09 AM
abis   QUOTE (Achernar @ 18 Nov 2005, 10:59 AM) Nu ar cas...   18 Nov 2005, 11:21 AM
MIA   Ce inseamna sa nu citesti cu atentie un schimb de ...   22 Nov 2005, 10:55 AM
abis   Sigur ca e drobul de sare... A fost o initiativa a...   22 Nov 2005, 11:01 AM
Achernar   Deocamdata astfel de initiative le-ar putea fi fol...   23 Nov 2005, 10:52 AM
Leonardo   Hehe, discutia continua inca... De acord cu Abis,...   23 Nov 2005, 11:08 AM
Achernar   Mda. Placa veche : UE vs comunism (cu tot ce impli...   23 Nov 2005, 11:55 AM
Leonardo   sigur placa veche, intelectualista = nu avem cu ci...   23 Nov 2005, 12:17 PM
MIA   QUOTE (abis @ 22 Nov 2005, 11:01 AM) A fost o init...   23 Nov 2005, 12:33 PM
abis   QUOTE (MIA @ 23 Nov 2005, 12:33 PM) Cind naiba a f...   23 Nov 2005, 12:44 PM
Leonardo   MIA: "Ca parere pur personala : "impuner...   23 Nov 2005, 12:54 PM
MIA   QUOTE (abis @ 23 Nov 2005, 12:44 PM) QUOTE (MIA ...   23 Nov 2005, 12:58 PM
abis   QUOTE (MIA @ 23 Nov 2005, 12:58 PM) nici nu e inca...   23 Nov 2005, 01:03 PM
Achernar   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 23 Nov 2005, 12:17 PM) E foarte...   23 Nov 2005, 01:06 PM
Leonardo   Achernar: eu accept argumentele trecute, zi-le. C...   23 Nov 2005, 01:15 PM
Achernar   Argumente bazate pe trecut ... OK Absolut toate st...   23 Nov 2005, 01:37 PM
MIA   QUOTE (abis @ 23 Nov 2005, 01:03 PM) QUOTE (MIA ...   23 Nov 2005, 02:44 PM
Leonardo   "Din pacate se vor intrerupe foarte multe cir...   23 Nov 2005, 03:56 PM
Leonardo   Iata un articol interesant cu titlul 'de ce e ...   23 Nov 2005, 04:59 PM
Achernar   1. Care circuite ? Majoritatea circuitelor ce impl...   24 Nov 2005, 11:24 AM
Leonardo   1. Care circuite ? Majoritatea circuitelor ce impl...   24 Nov 2005, 01:43 PM
Achernar   OK. Problema e in studiu.   24 Nov 2005, 02:01 PM
Leonardo   astept cu interes si ar fi interesant o analiza po...   24 Nov 2005, 02:49 PM
Achernar   Presupun ca iti dai seama ca nu dispun nici de mij...   24 Nov 2005, 04:49 PM
Leonardo   sigur ca-mi dau seama ca n-ai cum pentru ca nimen...   24 Nov 2005, 05:43 PM
Achernar   Daca nu exista datele necesare pentru o analiza cr...   25 Nov 2005, 10:48 AM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 24 Nov 2005, 02:49 PM) astept c...   25 Nov 2005, 11:06 AM
MIA   QUOTE Oricum n-ai ajunge la rezultate mai bune cu...   25 Nov 2005, 11:06 AM
Leonardo   eu cred ca pentru romani va fi un soc pozitiv, ii ...   25 Nov 2005, 11:14 AM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 25 Nov 2005, 11:14 AM) Faptul ca...   25 Nov 2005, 11:24 AM
Achernar   Mda. Chestia e ca sperantele-s legate de ce 'n...   25 Nov 2005, 11:41 AM
Leonardo   Sperantele noastre sunt legate de pomeni pentru ca...   25 Nov 2005, 12:25 PM
alfa   Leonardo QUOTE . Sperantele mele stau in schimba...   25 Nov 2005, 03:37 PM
Leonardo   Cum adica ce avem de castigat ca nivel de civiliza...   25 Nov 2005, 04:27 PM
alfa   Leonardo QUOTE Cum adica ce avem de castigat ca ...   25 Nov 2005, 05:02 PM
abis   QUOTE (alfa @ 25 Nov 2005, 05:02 PM) Cum creste o ...   25 Nov 2005, 05:16 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 25 Nov 2005, 04:27 PM) Vorbeam d...   25 Nov 2005, 05:23 PM
Leonardo   Sunt multe de spus, unele le-am mai spus deja dar ...   25 Nov 2005, 05:25 PM
abis   QUOTE (MIA @ 25 Nov 2005, 05:23 PM) Poate totusi a...   25 Nov 2005, 05:28 PM
MIA   QUOTE (Leonardo @ 25 Nov 2005, 05:25 PM) Pentru un...   25 Nov 2005, 05:32 PM
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