...Laa shay'a waqi'un mutlaq bale kouloun mumkin....(Nothing is true, everything is permitted)

Un subiect de discutie interesant .

As avea de adus multe critici si adnotari referitoare la informatiile wikipedice vehiculate pe acest thread dar sunt foarte obosita si nu ma pot concentra. Sper sa revin.
Totusi vreau sa mentionez ca traducerea corecta a devizei ar fi urmatoarea : Nimic nu e absolut, totul e posibil

mutlaq/motlaq = absolut
mumkin/momken = posibil

Dude!
Pe langa gluma cu jocul destul de bun pentru amatori de fantasy-game...ai mai introdus si alte arhicunoscute mistificari care de-a lungul timpul au determinat indepartarea unora de Asasinii care isi revendica doctrina din timpuri imemoriale.

...Laa shay'a waqi'un mutlaq bale kouloun mumkin....(Nothing is true, everything is permitted)

Hashshashin sau Asasinii sau Assasseen (din araba insemnand pazitori secretelor) dupa numele unui drog pe care il foloseau inainte de a savarsi o crima, au fost si mai sunt o societate secreta cu o ierarhie piramidala si descendenta din sectele islamice a lui Hakim, a Fatimizilor, Salinilor si Sutilor. In anul 872 d.Ch.sau 400 si ceva, un oarecare Abdullah ibn Mayrmin a infiintat secta Batini, care a dat tonul pentru dezvoltarea sectei Asasinilor. Bazandu-se pe cultul Roshaniya sau Cei Huminati..au devenit din 1094 dupa cucerirea fortaretei din Iran de la Alamut, tarmul Marii Caspice..una dintre cele mai de temut organizatii secrete din toate timpurile.

Cateva obiectii si completari
Din Qazvin si pana pe tarmul Marii Caspice ( Marea Khazar e denumirea oficiala in limba persana ce se regaseste pe toate hartile iar denumirea de Marea Mazandaran e denumirea utilizata de o serie de localnici) e ceva drum ... aproape o ora cu masina.
Deci Qazvinul, implicit si ruinele fortaretei Alamut, nu sunt situate chiar pe tarmul Marii Caspice. Poate fi consultata lista cu orasele de pe tarmul marii.

Hassan Sahah si descendentii sai trebuie analizati in contextul gruparii spirituale Nizari, desprinsa din ramura ismaelita - una din cele mai efervescente ramuri ale islamului shiit. Surprinzator ca in Iran gruparea Nizari a supravietuit pana la ora actuala.

Denumirea sectei vine de la haşiş ... nu stiu de unde ai scos ca in araba ar insemna pazitorii secretelor ? Interesant ca nici macar sunnitii, dar nici dusmanii si istoricii cu pareri negative vizavi de Hassan Sabah, nu au putut demonstra cu documente ca el, urmasii lui, sau adeptii sectei lor ar fi fost consumatori de droguri (haşiş), in schimb au demonstrat ca Hassan Sabah consuma carne de porc, bea vin si era foarte indulgent cu cei ce incalcau legile islamice.

Fiul sau, dupa ce i-a succedat la conducerea sectei, in ultima zi a Ramadanului/Ramezanului, s-a rugat cu spatele/fundul la Mecca, ori acest fapt in conceptia mahomedanilor reprezinta o blasfemie.
'Evenimentul' rugaciunii a fost consemnat in documentele epocii.

De fapt vrei sa ne spui de Hasan II...si de o zi de vineri in Ramadan...denumita Qiyamat Festival of the Resurrection...un festival al vinului.
Daca nu stiai Nizari abolisera legile islamice ale Shari'a..justificand prin conceptia Batranului ca "practice Batini (inward) spiritual fasting (i.e., controlling of the human instincts), instead of Zaheri (outward) physical fasting"

Da, evorba de ultima vineri a Ramadanului nu de ultima zi, ultima zi e denumita Eid-ul Fitr/Fetr.

Qiyamat inseamna Judecata de Apoi, nicidecum Festival al Vinului ( in araba vinul e denumit sharab)
Aduna-te de pe drumuri ... Festivalul Vinului in lumea islamica ... serios?

Whenever, the Alamut was threatened, the enemies had to come from Ispahan to Rudhbar after passing through the tedious and barren regions, and pitched their camps at the pastures of Alamut. While retreating, the frustrated forces took their revenge by mutilating and cutting down the luxuriant crops and devastated the smiling fields in order to quench the thirst of hatred and passion. Their temper was also crystallized into romantic stories. Firstly, it was rumored that the valley of Alamut had been transformed into the gardens of paradise, but it proved an ineffectual among the local people. Instead, the enemies contrived another florid story that so-called paradise existed inside the fortress. Since it was difficult to ascertain the story by the local people, it received a less credence in some quarters, whose bits and shreds were sorted out by the later writers to embellish a tale in exaggeration. Thus, the failure to eliminate the Ismailis, begot in its turn the idea of myths and tales. Round a trifling thing has thus grown up a crop of fables, making it a curious hodgepodge. According to Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics (London, 1958, 2:140), "Hasan bin Sabbah caused the land surrounding his fortress to be carefully cultivated, and this may have led to the legend of paradise." It was the Venetian traveller Marco Polo (1254-1324) to have heard from the villagers and narrated in his book. He was accompanied by his father and uncle and embarked on his journey to the court of Kubilai Khan (1260-1294). Macro Polo started from Acre in 1271, and passed through Iran in 1272, about 15 years after the reduction of Alamut when it was almost a heap of ruins. He committed his itinerary to writing through a scribe in 1298 and related what he had heard in Iran concerning the tale of paradise in Alamut. His ridiculous account however cannot be credible. It is inferred that he would have never crossed near the ruins of Alamut, and the description of the castle in Marco Polo's book was either the stronghold of Girdkuh near Damghan, which was finally surrendered to the Mongols in 1270, about two years before he crossed Khorasan into northern Afghanistan; or, more probably, some fortress in eastern Kohistan. There he evidently had seen a ruined castle of the Ismailis. His itinerary however did not take him to Alamut, which appears to be the castle alluded to in his account. He had heard from some local informants, which he admits in the beginning, and therefore, his account is admittedly not based on personal observation. It also cannot be denied that Marco Polo's account bears a distinctly occidental imprint, reflecting the influences of different reports, which are ultimately traceable to Burchard of Strassburg, Arnold of Lubeck and James of Vitry. It is therefore possible that Marco Polo had knowingly conflated the information he had acquired some 30 years earlier in Iran, with the legends then prevalent in Europe for the Ismailis of Syria. All this sounds to the conclusion that Marco Polo could not have heard his account in its entirety from his informants in Iran.

Marco Polo applied the term Ashishin (or Assassin) for the Ismailis. It has been asserted that the term Assassin had originally acquired currency in Crusader circles in reference to the Ismailis of Syria, and it was neither originated or prevalent in Iran, and therefore, Marco Polo could not have heard the term Assassins from his informants in Iran. His curious application of the title of Old Man of the Mountain (Vetus de Mountain, or Viel de la Montaigne) to the ruler of Alamut; also suggests a doubtful description. This title has been coined by the Crusaders for the chief of the Ismailis of Syria, and it was never in usage among the Ismailis of Iran. It is therefore, safe to infer that Marco Polo would have never heard the title of Old Man of the Mountain in Iran, but he used in the light of the then informations prevalent in Europe for the Syrian Ismailis.

[...]

Thus, Marco Polo enhanced a further lease of life to the anti-Ismaili propaganda in Europe. Later on, the account of Friar Odoric of Pordenous (d. 731/1331), who visited China during 1323-27, is perhaps the earliest occidental account of the Ismailis, based entirely on Marco Polo, on his homeland journey to Italy in 1328. Odoric passed through the Caspian coast land in northern Iran, and heard there about the Ismailis, but his description almost resembles the account of Marco Polo. Charles E. Nowell writes in The Old Man of the Mountain (cf. Speculum, Mass., October, 1947, 12:517-8) that, "It is easy to understand how some parts of the Marco-Odoric legend were started. Various eastern historians say that the original Old Man, Hasan Sabbah, for purely economic and strategic reasons, had conduits built and encouraged planting around Alamut. This gave rise to the stories of the garden and the fountains of wine, milk and honey."

[...]
It is also a striking feature that not a single Muslim source, notably Ata Malik Juvaini had ever mentioned about the legend of paradise, who was very aggressive in his narratives and was in search of such stories against the Ismailis. Marshall Hodgson writes in The Order of the Assassins (Netherland, 1955, p.135) that, "Juvaini, when investigating the history of Alamut on the spot after its fall did not look for such a garden as Polo heard tell of."

The modern scholars express great doubts as to the historicity of the stories of paradise narrated by Marco Polo. Carl Brockelmann writes in History of the Islamic Peoples (London, 1959, p. 179) that, "What the Venetian world traveller Marco Polo reported, who some two hundred years later (1271 or 1272) passed through the territory of Alamut, may be mere a legend." Dr. Abbas Hamadani writes in The Fatimids (Karachi 1962, pp. 50-51) that, "A myth was circulated in much later times to the effect that Hasan used to give hashish, an intoxicating drug, to his followers, and in their state of unconsciousness they were transferred to a false paradise. The legend of paradise was circulated by the European traveller Marco Polo, and it is obviously false." Athar Abbas Rizvi writes in Iran - Royalty, Religion and Revolution (Canberra, 1980, p. 72) that, "The romantic stories of the order of assassins and of the Old Man of the Mountain are familiar to Western readers through the pages of Marco Polo, but the legends surrounding events in Alamut, although fascinating, are far from truth." According to The Arabs (by the editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica, New York, 1978, p. 94) that, "Stories of the terrorists' use of hashish before setting out to commit murder and face martyrdom are doubtful, and there is no Ismaili source to confirm tales of an artificial paradise into which drugged members were taken as a foretaste of eternal bliss." Duncan Forbes also writes in The Heart of Iran (London, 1963, p. 29) that, "It is difficult to believe that the Alamut valley, austere and rocky as it is today, ever contained the delicate gardens described in the Middle Ages." Lastly, in falsifying the tale of paradise, William Marsdon writes in The Travels of Marco Polo (London, 1818, p. 117) that, "We may affect to smile at his (Macro Polo's) credulity."

Trecand peste greselile strecurate pe ici pe colo...iti voi raspunde de pe drumurile mele...chiar daca textul pe care mi-l prezinti nu este decat interpretarea ta in araba a unor cuvinte...Iti multumesc pentru traduceri dar nu asta ma intereseaza...sunt destule dictionare online/print.

Marea majoritate a ismaelitilor nu au cunostiinte despre aceasta Zi...denumita de Asasini Ziua Resurectiei...si cu atat mai mult cu cat datele despre ea au fost arse odata cu distrugerea fortaretei de la Alamut. Dar pentru ca insisti am sa-ti arat aici cateva fraze din discursul care a pus bazele acestei sarbatori asa cum am denumit-o Festival al Vinului...

[...]
De ce l-am numit Festival al Vinului..pentru ca dupa acest discurs fulminant..din care am redat doar o fraza...Hasan devine Khalifa (deputy) al Imam-ului secret, un rang mai mare decat Da`i si Hujja..si apare in cartile de istorie ca si Qa'im al-qiyama (Bringer of the Resurrection). El va initia o noua etapa in aceasta secta Batini..iar aceasta zi se va transforma in banchet unde se va consuma vin din belsug.("The Shari`ah laws were abolished from that day, and every year the 17th (19th, according to Abualy) of Ramadhan was celebrated as 'id-i Qiyamat, the Festival of the Resurrection.")...Pam Pam!!

Daca nu aveau habar atunci cum, dupa spusele tale, au sarbatorit-o ?