Ba da. Citesc cu atentie si tocmai de aceea vreau sa punctez pe ici pe colo.
Sunt foarte indoielnice 'marturiile' lui Marco Polo in ceea ce priveste vizita la Alamut.
In primul rand vreau sa spun ca in anul 1256 cetatea cade pe mana lui Hulagu Han, nepotul lui Ginghiz Khan. Inainte de a o transforma in ruina el ii ordonaaaa primului sau ministru sa faca inventarul fortaretei, al anexelor, al bibliotecii si al drumurilor din zona.
Daca ar fi existat cu adevarat o Gradina a Paradisului la Alamut sau in apropiere, mai mult ca sigur ca ar fi notat-o in inventarul facut caci existenta acestei gradini ar fi confirmat legenda precum ca Hassan Sabah i-ar fi drogat pe membrii sectei, cu hasis sau un alt drog, dupa care i-ar fi dus intr-o gradina nemaiintalnit de frumoasa si i-ar fi lasat la dispozitia unor tinere super de dotate care i-ar fi adus in extaz pe respectivii adepti.
Legenda (falsa cred eu) mai spune ca prin acest tertip Hassan Sabah ii convingea pe adepti ca au intrat in Gradina Paradisului si ca daca ii vor fi fideli ( vezi etimologia cuvantului fadayan sau fidai), ori de cate ori va vrea dansul, ii va duce din nou in starea de extaz traita anterior.
Dar oamenii lui Hulagu Han nu au gasit nici o urma din faimoasa gradina si nici o alta sursa din lumea islamica a timpului nu-i consemneaza existenta.
Toate acestea au fost doar zvonuri si povesti inventate pentru creduli.
In realitate adeptii sectei au fost oameni instruiti, la fel ca si ceilalti sufisti ai perioadei medievale, caci stiinta, filozofia si literatura Persiei cat si cea a tarilor arabe este opera misticilor de tot felul ( a sufistilor) nu a musulmanilor ortodocsi.
In ceea ce-i priveste pe ismaelitii de azi, condusi de Agha Khan - a carui fundatie nu e pusa pe baze religioase si nu face propaganda islamica, sunt la randul lor oameni foarte bine pregatiti, cei mai scoliti dintre imigrantii arabi din America si Europa, si primii musulmani ce au intrat in parlamentul canadian sau in alte structuri politice occidentale.
Agha Khan acorda acele premii pentru arhitectura ce-i propulseaza pe scena mondiala pe arhitectii cu talent; pana acum marea parte a premiilor au fost luate de crestini.
Ma reintorc la Marco Polo care in scrierile sale foloseste informatii culese de la ismailitii sirieni si de la cei din cercurile cruciatilor, caci, extrem de important, ei au vehiculat si au introdus in Europa numele de asasin ... hash - hashin , etc.
Poate nu o sa credeti dar acest nume "asasin" sau macar unul asemanator, plus cel de Batranul Om al Muntelui, nu exista in scrierile persilor/iranienilor, nici in traditia sau vorbirea curenta a locuitorilor din zona.
Daca il vei intreba pe un iranian oarecare despre asasini, iti va ridica din umeri.
Pai e posibil ca Marco Polo sa fi vizitat Alamutul si sa nu fi consemnat denumirea sectei in limba localnicilor?
In plus de asta el mai si descrie o gradina inexistenta ... fara indoiala ca in drumurile sale a auzit destule fabulatii pe care le-a compilat dupa bunul plac.
In al treilea rand mai trebuie spus ca traseul lui Marco Polo, analizat secvential de istorici, nu cuprinde drumul spre Qazvin si de acolo inspre fortareata Alamut.
http://www.articlesbase.com/religion-artic...mut-293900.htmlQUOTE
Whenever, the Alamut was threatened, the enemies had to come from Ispahan to Rudhbar after passing through the tedious and barren regions, and pitched their camps at the pastures of Alamut. While retreating, the frustrated forces took their revenge by mutilating and cutting down the luxuriant crops and devastated the smiling fields in order to quench the thirst of hatred and passion. Their temper was also crystallized into romantic stories. Firstly, it was rumored that the valley of Alamut had been transformed into the gardens of paradise, but it proved an ineffectual among the local people. Instead, the enemies contrived another florid story that so-called paradise existed inside the fortress. Since it was difficult to ascertain the story by the local people, it received a less credence in some quarters, whose bits and shreds were sorted out by the later writers to embellish a tale in exaggeration. Thus, the failure to eliminate the Ismailis, begot in its turn the idea of myths and tales. Round a trifling thing has thus grown up a crop of fables, making it a curious hodgepodge. According to Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics (London, 1958, 2:140), "Hasan bin Sabbah caused the land surrounding his fortress to be carefully cultivated, and this may have led to the legend of paradise." It was the Venetian traveller Marco Polo (1254-1324) to have heard from the villagers and narrated in his book. He was accompanied by his father and uncle and embarked on his journey to the court of Kubilai Khan (1260-1294). Macro Polo started from Acre in 1271, and passed through Iran in 1272, about 15 years after the reduction of Alamut when it was almost a heap of ruins. He committed his itinerary to writing through a scribe in 1298 and related what he had heard in Iran concerning the tale of paradise in Alamut. His ridiculous account however cannot be credible. It is inferred that he would have never crossed near the ruins of Alamut, and the description of the castle in Marco Polo's book was either the stronghold of Girdkuh near Damghan, which was finally surrendered to the Mongols in 1270, about two years before he crossed Khorasan into northern Afghanistan; or, more probably, some fortress in eastern Kohistan. There he evidently had seen a ruined castle of the Ismailis. His itinerary however did not take him to Alamut, which appears to be the castle alluded to in his account. He had heard from some local informants, which he admits in the beginning, and therefore, his account is admittedly not based on personal observation. It also cannot be denied that Marco Polo's account bears a distinctly occidental imprint, reflecting the influences of different reports, which are ultimately traceable to Burchard of Strassburg, Arnold of Lubeck and James of Vitry. It is therefore possible that Marco Polo had knowingly conflated the information he had acquired some 30 years earlier in Iran, with the legends then prevalent in Europe for the Ismailis of Syria. All this sounds to the conclusion that Marco Polo could not have heard his account in its entirety from his informants in Iran.
Marco Polo applied the term Ashishin (or Assassin) for the Ismailis. It has been asserted that the term Assassin had originally acquired currency in Crusader circles in reference to the Ismailis of Syria, and it was neither originated or prevalent in Iran, and therefore, Marco Polo could not have heard the term Assassins from his informants in Iran. His curious application of the title of Old Man of the Mountain (Vetus de Mountain, or Viel de la Montaigne) to the ruler of Alamut; also suggests a doubtful description. This title has been coined by the Crusaders for the chief of the Ismailis of Syria, and it was never in usage among the Ismailis of Iran. It is therefore, safe to infer that Marco Polo would have never heard the title of Old Man of the Mountain in Iran, but he used in the light of the then informations prevalent in Europe for the Syrian Ismailis.
[...]
Thus, Marco Polo enhanced a further lease of life to the anti-Ismaili propaganda in Europe. Later on, the account of Friar Odoric of Pordenous (d. 731/1331), who visited China during 1323-27, is perhaps the earliest occidental account of the Ismailis, based entirely on Marco Polo, on his homeland journey to Italy in 1328. Odoric passed through the Caspian coast land in northern Iran, and heard there about the Ismailis, but his description almost resembles the account of Marco Polo. Charles E. Nowell writes in The Old Man of the Mountain (cf. Speculum, Mass., October, 1947, 12:517-8) that, "It is easy to understand how some parts of the Marco-Odoric legend were started. Various eastern historians say that the original Old Man, Hasan Sabbah, for purely economic and strategic reasons, had conduits built and encouraged planting around Alamut. This gave rise to the stories of the garden and the fountains of wine, milk and honey."
[...]
It is also a striking feature that not a single Muslim source, notably Ata Malik Juvaini had ever mentioned about the legend of paradise, who was very aggressive in his narratives and was in search of such stories against the Ismailis. Marshall Hodgson writes in The Order of the Assassins (Netherland, 1955, p.135) that, "Juvaini, when investigating the history of Alamut on the spot after its fall did not look for such a garden as Polo heard tell of."
The modern scholars express great doubts as to the historicity of the stories of paradise narrated by Marco Polo. Carl Brockelmann writes in History of the Islamic Peoples (London, 1959, p. 179) that, "What the Venetian world traveller Marco Polo reported, who some two hundred years later (1271 or 1272) passed through the territory of Alamut, may be mere a legend." Dr. Abbas Hamadani writes in The Fatimids (Karachi 1962, pp. 50-51) that, "A myth was circulated in much later times to the effect that Hasan used to give hashish, an intoxicating drug, to his followers, and in their state of unconsciousness they were transferred to a false paradise. The legend of paradise was circulated by the European traveller Marco Polo, and it is obviously false." Athar Abbas Rizvi writes in Iran - Royalty, Religion and Revolution (Canberra, 1980, p. 72) that, "The romantic stories of the order of assassins and of the Old Man of the Mountain are familiar to Western readers through the pages of Marco Polo, but the legends surrounding events in Alamut, although fascinating, are far from truth." According to The Arabs (by the editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica, New York, 1978, p. 94) that, "Stories of the terrorists' use of hashish before setting out to commit murder and face martyrdom are doubtful, and there is no Ismaili source to confirm tales of an artificial paradise into which drugged members were taken as a foretaste of eternal bliss." Duncan Forbes also writes in The Heart of Iran (London, 1963, p. 29) that, "It is difficult to believe that the Alamut valley, austere and rocky as it is today, ever contained the delicate gardens described in the Middle Ages." Lastly, in falsifying the tale of paradise, William Marsdon writes in The Travels of Marco Polo (London, 1818, p. 117) that, "We may affect to smile at his (Macro Polo's) credulity."
QUOTE(cocosel @ 12 Oct 2011, 06:21 PM)
Trecand peste greselile strecurate pe ici pe colo...iti voi raspunde de pe drumurile mele...chiar daca textul pe care mi-l prezinti nu este decat interpretarea ta in araba a unor cuvinte...Iti multumesc pentru traduceri dar nu asta ma intereseaza...sunt destule dictionare online/print.
Cuvintele respective nu le-am luat din dictionare printate sau din cele on line.
Desi limba persana e diferita de cea araba, termenii folositi in stintele de baza (Matematica, Chimie, Filozofie, Astronomie, Geometrie ) precum si cei din Mistica si Religie, sunt exact termenii preluati din limba araba in perioada de expansiune a islamului.
De cuvinte ca Zaher, Qiyamat, Ta'alim, Khaqikat, Erfan/Irfan, Sharia, etc ma izbesc zilnic la televizor si in vorbirea curenta. Pot spune ca sunt suprasaturata de ele.
Spre deosebire de altii care vorbesc despre dervisi si misticism doar prin prisma cartilor citite, eu am fost si prin locurile lor de adunare, acolo unde prezenta femeilor a fost permisa ... am intrat asa, cu mentalitatea europeanul aceluia ce-si inchipuie ca e adevarat ceea ce-i tiparit prin cartile pe care le-a citit la el acasa.
Am descoperit ca gruparile mistice impun in primul rand austeritate, simplitate, renuntare la nimicurile stralucitoare ale vietii.
In cazul nerenuntarii la ele, spun ei, e imposibila iluminarea interioara (ruperea valului ce acopera miezul lucrurilor) si trecerea pe planuri supirituale superioare inaccesibile celorlalti.
Nu am fost niciodata la intrunirile ismailitilor, dar acum ca tot m-am prins in jocul asta cu Hassan Sabah, cu prima ocazie voi merge sa 'adulmec' atmosfera
Sa nu uit ... dupa acea sedinta de rugaciune cu spatele la Mecca, in care a proclamat Qiyamatul (adica sfarsitul lumii si accederea in Paradis a fiintei umane inainte de moartea fizica) Hasan II le-a cerut membrilor sectei sa-l urmeze orbeste.
Unii au refuzat. Cei ce au refuzat, e vorba de mii de oameni din alte cetati, au fost ucisi fara mila. Acesti oameni au dorit sa urmeze invataturile sectei Nizari asa cum le-au fost transmise din tata in fiu.
In acel punct al istoriei, adica Qiyamatul lui Hasan II, adeptii sectei infiintate de Hassan Sabah se rup pentru totdeauna la nivel spiritual de miscarea Nizari.
Nu-i rau de citit punctul de vedere al unui cunoscator : Anthony Chambell.
De parcurs cu atentie ultime fraze ale textului, fraze ce dovedesc ca scriitorul e un admirator al miscarii.
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/ismailieh/ismailieh.phpVoi reveni, sper, si cu unele interpretari referitor la asasinatele comise de ei. Ar mai fi de spus ca manualele de instructie CIA au cateva pagini bune bazate pe 'invataturile' lui Hassan Sabah, pomenindu-i chiar si numele.