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mutulica Vizualizare profil forumist	19 Mar 2005, 07:07 PM Mesaj #36
piticanie oPsedata Grup: Membri Mesaje: 7.280 Inscris: 7 January 04 Din: *** Forumist Nr.: 1.726	prea suna a teoria conspiratiei... daca fluorul e asa rau, ar trebui sa moara poporul la greu... ar trebui sa fie proportional cu cazul fumatului... cancerul pulmonar chiar e o problema -------------------- Viitorul tau depinde de visele tale. In consecinta nu pierde timpul, du-te si te culca.

Mrs. Rogers Vizualizare profil forumist	19 Mar 2005, 11:33 PM Mesaj #37
Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 2.267 Inscris: 1 February 04 Forumist Nr.: 2.054	Maximul de fluor admis in apa sau aliment ingerat e de 4 ppm ( parti pe milion ). Apa fluoridata are 1 ppm Unele sucuri ( ice tea ) au 6.5 ppm In pasta de dinti exista mult mai mult flor din cauza ca este pt uz extern. daca am manca pasta de dinti, ar fi toxica . -------------------- http://pbskids.org/rogers/songlist/song1_ra.html

Mrs. Rogers

20 Mar 2005, 07:01 AM

Mesaj #38

Domnitor

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QUOTE

Fluorul nu reduce numarul cariilor dentare.
Aparent, acestea sunt determinate genetic, dar de fapt, ele tin de nivelul educational si economic al parintilor
Nu s-a gasit nici o legatura intre nivelul de fluor din apa si cariile dentare

Asta e o afirmatie care pentru cei ce au cunostinte in domeniu suna cam asa " Portocala nu contine vitamina C . Necesarul de vitamina C e asigurat prin alimentatia cu cartofi . Cartoful este o leguma citrica "

Si sa nu mai spun ca FDA a aprobat si reglementeaza nivelul de flor din pasta de dinti . Insa nu din toate produsesle dentare care se gasesc pe piata cum ar fi mouth wash . Iar nivelul fluorului din apa e regelmentat de o alta institutie guvernalentala din SUA si nu are legatura cu FDA .

Acest topic a fost editat de toxic: 20 Mar 2005, 07:02 AM

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http://pbskids.org/rogers/songlist/song1_ra.html
user posted image

Promo Contextual	20 Mar 2005, 07:01 AM Mesaj #
ContextuALL

mutulica Vizualizare profil forumist	20 Mar 2005, 08:52 AM Mesaj #39
piticanie oPsedata Grup: Membri Mesaje: 7.280 Inscris: 7 January 04 Din: *** Forumist Nr.: 1.726	oare in romania cine reglementeaza, si ce... pare ca americanii traiesc destul demult cu tot fluorul din pasta de dinti, deci ... o sa continuam ca si pina acum -------------------- Viitorul tau depinde de visele tale. In consecinta nu pierde timpul, du-te si te culca.

axel

20 Mar 2005, 09:42 AM

Mesaj #40

Domnitor

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QUOTE (toxic @ 20 Mar 2005, 08:01 AM)

Si sa nu mai spun ca FDA a aprobat si reglementeaza nivelul de flor din pasta de dinti . Insa nu din toate produsesle dentare care se gasesc pe piata cum ar fi mouth wash . Iar nivelul fluorului din apa e regelmentat de o alta institutie guvernalentala din SUA si nu are legatura cu FDA .

Asta nu spune nimic. Tot FDA da mana libera pentru junk food, pentru coloranti alimentari, pentru indulcitori artificiali despre care exista atat de multe dovezi ca's cancerigeni.

Uite un fragment de articol:

QUOTE

Fluoride More Toxic than Lead

Fluoride is known to be more toxic than lead and only slightly less toxic
than arsenic. Recently, in 1994, N.P. Gritsan, G.W. Miller and G.G.
Shmalkov reported their study on the effect of various pollutants on
abnormal plant development in Southeast Ukraine. They found that among 17
elements, including fluoride, cadmium, lead and aluminum, fluoride was the
most toxic.
Since humans share the same enzyme systems and DNA mechanisms as other
biota and fluoride is a proven enzyme and DNA repair inhibiting agent, why
would anyone think that humans are immune from its toxic effects?
Dr. Horowitz appears to be more concerned about the "increase in public
anxiety" that may lead to lack of public acceptance of fluoridation, than
about the possible adverse effects of fluoride on humans.
In September 1994, the 20th Conference of the International Society for
Fluoride Research was held in Beijing, China. This Conference was jointly
sponsored by the Ministry of Health, People's Republic of China, the World
Health Organization and The National Natural Science Foundation of China.
In attendance were 200 researchers from the host country and about 150 from
other countries.
The major area of concern was the prevalence of fluorosis in China. The
"endemic fluorosis" areas of China contain a population of 100 million. Of
these, 43 million people have dental fluorosis of all degrees of severity;
2.4 million have skeletal fluorosis, a severe crippling disease with bone
deformities.
The Chinese presented papers using observations from studies of both
experimental animals and humans showing the relationship between poor diet,
especially calcium deficiency, repeated childbirth and duration of
exposure, to the severity of the effects of chronic fluoride poisoning.
The Chinese reported not only adverse effects on teeth and bones but also
those involving soft tissues. Some of these occur at surprisingly low
levels of total fluoride ingestion, some of which were within the range of
total intake reported for fluoridated areas of the U.S. and Canada.
They presented evidence of increased fractures, poor fracture healing and
bone outgrowths (exostoses) as some of the skeletal effects.
With regard to soft tissue involvement, studies were presented that dealt
with neurological lesions. They ascribed paralysis to direct action of
fluoride on the central nervous system in addition to the effect of
pressure on motor nerves by encroachment of fluorotic bone. Studies also
showed that thyroid dysfunction, heart disease and abnormal
electrocardiograms and cerebrovascular disease were more prevalent in the
endemic fluorosis areas.
An association was shown between chronic fluoride intoxication and lowered
intelligence as measured by IQ tests; chromosomal abnormalities; decreased
immunity; increased senile cataracts; and cancer.
The Chinese scientists also reported higher infant death rates due to
congenital abnormalities and higher death rates generally in endemic
fluorosis areas. They also reported variable synergistic effects between
fluoride and aluminum, fluoride and arsenic, fluoride and selenium.
The foregoing would almost appear to be the table of contents of Dr. John
Yiamouyiannis' book, Fluoride, the Aging Factor (Health Action Press,
Delaware, Ohio), and the older publication, Fluoridation, the Great
Dilemma, by Drs. George L. Waldbott, Albert W. Burgstahler and H. Lewis
McKinney (Coronado Press, 1978).
Dr. Horowitz and his colleagues can be expected to attempt to refute this
evidence of the potential harm from fluoridation by arguing that the
endemic fluorosis areas in China are largely rural and that the people are
impoverished, with poor nutrition, especially calcium deficiency. They
would also point to the higher levels of fluoride in water, 2.5-5 mg/L, and
to additional sources of fluoride such as coal burning for cooking and for
drying corn, wheat and millet. They would deny that these adverse effects
occur in the US where fluoridation has been practiced since 1945.
To do this successfully, they would have to refute the many studies
published in peer-reviewed journals, that show that in the US there is a
significant relationship between residence in fluoridated areas and most of
the problems described by the Chinese.
These studies show increases in chromosomal abnormalities such as Down's
Syndrome (mongolism) as demonstrated by Dr. Ional Rapaport in 1954 and
1957. They show, also, increased overall cancer deaths, (Drs. Dean Burk and
John Yiamouyiannis, 1977); and deaths from osteosarcoma, a rare bone
cancer, in young men reported by Dr. R. N. Hoover and others in 1991 and
Dr. P.D Cohn in 1992.
The studies on osteosarcoma were inspired by the finding of the US National
Toxicology Program in 1989 that there was a dose-related relationship
between fluoride and osteosarcoma in male rats. The study found, also, a
relationship between fluoride and an extremely rare form of liver cancer in
the experimental animals as well as cancers of other areas such as the
mouth. When the findings were "peer reviewed," the conclusions were termed
"equivocal," a term that gave rise to the controversy that continues to
this day.

Fluoridation and Hip Fractures

They would also have to refute the studies that show a higher incidence of
hip fracture in residents of fluoridated areas. This includes U.S. studies
published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) by Dr.
S.J. Jacobsen in 1990 and Christa Danielson and others in 1992.
Studies from abroad have shown the same relationship between fluoridation
and hip fractures: Dr. C. Cooper (UK) in JAMA, July 24, 1991 and Dr. J.
Colquhoun, New Zealand Medical Journal, August 1991. There are also studies
showing the effect of low concentrations of fluoride on the immune system
such as that in Complementary Medicine, 1992, by Dr. Shiela L. M. Gibson of
the Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital. There are studies from India where
endemic fluorosis is a major public health problem. Publications from this
country cover many aspects for which their extensive literature must be
consulted. One important area of research in India deals with one of the
most frequently encountered symptoms that occurs long before skeletal
fluorosis becomes clinically obvious p; gastrointestinal discomfort.
Outstanding work on this has been carried out by Dr. A.K. Susheela and her
co-workers at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Delhi. One of
her papers, published in Fluoride (Vol 25, No 1) 1992 shows, by means of
photographs taken through an endoscope, the unhealthy appearance of stomach
mucosa when it is exposed to very low concentrations of fluoride.
These texts should be consulted for further examples of scientific studies
that counter the false notion that fluoride, even at optimal concentration,
is without harm. Those individuals and institutions that promote
fluoridation have by their actions, created endemic fluorosis in the US,
Canada and other countries that have adopted the practice.
Like China, before defluoridation, 43% (or more in some studies) of
children in these fluoridated areas exhibit dental fluorosis. Is it
possible that 2.4% of the public have largely unrecognized skeletal
fluorosis? How many deaths from congenital abnormalities could be laid at
the doorstep of fluoridation?
How many tons of antacids are consumed by North Americans for "functional
dyspepsia" (that is, stomach ulcer pain without demonstrable ulcers) caused
by drinking fluoridated water and beverages?
People living in endemic fluorosis areas, such as China and India,
frequently exhibit as "early" signs of the development of later skeletal
deformity, back stiffness along with joint and tendon pain. How many
persons residing in fluoridated areas have these symptoms caused by
fluoride? How many are misdiagnosed as "repetitive stress syndrome,"
"tendonitis" or "arthritis" of unknown type or cause?

( http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/VISIE/fluoride.html )
Asa ca poti verifica validitatea sau invaliditatea afirmatiilor din articolul respectiv. Din fericire vine si cu referinte, asa ca nu ar trebui sa-ti fie prea greu.

Acest topic a fost editat de axel: 20 Mar 2005, 09:42 AM

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Azi avem.

mutulica Vizualizare profil forumist	20 Mar 2005, 01:45 PM Mesaj #41
piticanie oPsedata Grup: Membri Mesaje: 7.280 Inscris: 7 January 04 Din: *** Forumist Nr.: 1.726	mda... americanii... depinde cine aduce doctorul in instanta, cel ce cere despagubiri la macdonald pentru ca s-a ingrasat de la mincare, sau cel ce apara interesele macdonald, desi e o chestiune de bun simt ca daca maninci te ingrasi, doar de aia maninci romanii ar trebui sa dea in judecata pe mos craciun, ca mai mereu de sarbatori ajung o gramada la spital din cauza exceselor probabil ca daca mincam pasta de dinti o sa ne imbolnavim rau de tot, de aia cred ca e de preferat sa o folosim doar pentru spalat. din cite am auzit sapunul de spalat pe maini e si mai toxic, ar trebui sa incetam a ne mai spala pe maini -------------------- Viitorul tau depinde de visele tale. In consecinta nu pierde timpul, du-te si te culca.

axel

20 Mar 2005, 01:48 PM

Mesaj #42

Domnitor

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QUOTE (mutulica @ 20 Mar 2005, 02:45 PM)

depinde cine aduce doctorul in instanta, cel ce cere despagubiri la macdonald pentru ca s-a ingrasat de la mincare, sau cel ce apara interesele macdonald, desi e o chestiune de bun simt ca daca maninci te ingrasi, doar de aia maninci

Depinde si ce ti se da de mancare.
Aaa, si nu e deloc o chestiune de bun simt ca daca mananci te ingrasi, si in plus eu (ca probabil cei mai mutli oameni

) nu mananc ca sa ma ingras.

Acest topic a fost editat de axel: 20 Mar 2005, 01:50 PM

--------------------

Azi avem.

Mrs. Rogers Vizualizare profil forumist	20 Mar 2005, 04:45 PM Mesaj #43
Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 2.267 Inscris: 1 February 04 Forumist Nr.: 2.054	Daca fluorul ar fi toxic , nu vad de ce tarile civilizate ca si Germania si Franta ar avea apa fluoridata ? Vor politicienii lor sa-i oamare pe nemti? Si sper ca nu sunt singura care observa ca au si dantura mai buna ca romanii . -------------------- http://pbskids.org/rogers/songlist/song1_ra.html

Mrs. Rogers Vizualizare profil forumist	20 Mar 2005, 04:52 PM Mesaj #44
Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 2.267 Inscris: 1 February 04 Forumist Nr.: 2.054	Eu mai sus am scris exact care e limita de flor admisa . Cand cititi un artico;l, va puteti da seama ca e dubios si dupa faptul ca nu precizeaza care e limita cand florul e toxic . Si iodul din sare , si aspirina si siropul de tuse si aBSOLUT TOT E TOXIC DUPA O ANUMITA LIMITA . Un studiu care afirma ca iodul e toxic trebuie sa specifice " ingerarea a peste 400 g de iod zilnic timp de 4 saptamani e toxic" si nu " iodul e toxic, renuntati la sare " -------------------- http://pbskids.org/rogers/songlist/song1_ra.html

saldora Vizualizare profil forumist	20 Mar 2005, 08:41 PM Mesaj #45
Dregator Grup: Membri Mesaje: 732 Inscris: 24 April 04 Forumist Nr.: 3.238	Hei! ..e dreptul fiecarui sa faca cum crede de cuviinta (dupa stiinta si constiinta). PS. poti sa 'bei' un pahar de lichior fara sa-l ingurgitezi (este absorbit in cavitatea bucala) la fel si cu laptele .. Acest topic a fost editat de saldora: 20 Mar 2005, 08:42 PM -------------------- Am adunat cuvintele si acum suflu peste ele... ca intr-o papadie.

Oiski-Poiski Vizualizare profil forumist	20 Mar 2005, 09:06 PM Mesaj #46
femeia de pe luna Grup: Membri Mesaje: 3.998 Inscris: 22 January 05 Din: LUNA Forumist Nr.: 5.504	Aceeasi intrebare i-am pus-o dentistei noastre dupa ce mi-am facut capul patrat de cate am citit in internet despre fluor. Si ea mi-a spus ca trebuie sa ma spal pe dinti cu pasta aia nu spune nimeni ca trebuie sa o mananc . Daca nu se depasesc anumite granite nu este daunator.Este aceeasi poveste ca si cu E-urile si aromele si culorile din alimente.Ma feresc cat pot de ele insa fara sa ma innebunesc singura. Insa fluoridizarea dintilor se practica aici demult si inca nu au murit oamenii din asta si nici nu-i vad pe strada cu defecte provocate de aceasta metoda de a pastra dintii cat mai sanatosi. Copilul meu e mai alergic si am intrebat alergologul daca pot sa-i las dintii sa-i fie sigilati si cum este cu fluorul etc. La care el a zis ca daca se pastreaza masura nu este nimic periculos .Din contra el ca si copil nu a avut parte de un tratament amplu al dentatiei si acum poarta proteza , fiul lui la 20 de ani nu are o carie in gura. Important este spalatul pe dinti dimineata si seara neaparat, controalele regulate la dentist si atunci cand noi nu vedem nimic grav sau nu ne doare nimic . Si se pare ca totusi periuta electrica (depinde de care ) e mai buna decat cea manuala. -------------------- "Vorbeste doar atunci cand cuvintele tale sunt mai valoroase decat tacerea"

Mrs. Rogers Vizualizare profil forumist	22 Mar 2005, 01:46 AM Mesaj #47
Domnitor Grup: Membri Mesaje: 2.267 Inscris: 1 February 04 Forumist Nr.: 2.054	Eu cred ca e sechela a zvonisticii comuniste faptul ca romanii sunt reticenti la tot ce e nou si vine din afara. Nu la chiar tot , dar in special la lucrurile care sunt mai putin intelese si exista deficit de educatie a populatiei in privinta asta . Cred ca ar trebui sa existe mai multe emisiuni care sa explice anumite fenomene , atitudini sau chestiuni cum ar fi florul. -------------------- http://pbskids.org/rogers/songlist/song1_ra.html

Felina Vizualizare profil forumist	22 Mar 2005, 03:30 PM Mesaj #48
bulina Grup: Membri Mesaje: 10.490 Inscris: 19 January 05 Forumist Nr.: 5.473	Sa-nteleg ca nu e bine ca ma periez cinci minute? Hmm... da' ce-mi place! -------------------- "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." Never asume. A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off of my unicorn.

Michelle Vizualizare profil forumist	22 Mar 2005, 03:42 PM Mesaj #49
Cronicar Grup: Moderator Mesaje: 3.750 Inscris: 8 January 05 Din: ??? Forumist Nr.: 5.402	Nushi,tre sa ti-i periezi minimum5 minute!la fiecare spalat. Vroiam sa va spun ca si planta de ceai contine mult fluor. Eu am vazut englez la 25 ani fara nici o carie in gura. Deci efectul de protectie anticarioasa nu e deloc o "gogorita" ,sigur ca excesele fac rau ,dar la supradozaj se ajunge doar in situatiile in care pe linga pasta de dinti se foloseste pentru baut si o apa deja fluorizata sau sare cu fluor in alimentatie. -------------------- Life is about having the mixture of the curiosity of an older person and the imagination of a child Daphne Guiness Mai bine sa fii urat pentru ceea ce esti, decit iubit pentru ceea ce nu esti! Anatole France

Felina

22 Mar 2005, 03:59 PM

Mesaj #50

bulina

Grup: Membri
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QUOTE (Michelle @ 22 Mar 2005, 03:42 PM)

Nushi,tre sa ti-i periezi minimum5 minute!la fiecare spalat.

Eu am vazut englez la 25 ani fara nici o carie in gura.

Am inteles, sa traiti! Asa o sa fac

!

In legatura cu domnu' englezu' de douascinici de ani si zero carii nu stiu ce sa zic...

Eu am cunoscut intr-un spital un roman de-al nostru de 27 de ani care, pe langa faptul ca nu folosea deloc periuta&pasta de dinti - ca la el la tara asa se pomenea, mai era si frumos foc si n-avea nici o carie. Da' vreau sa-ti spun ca ne-a lasat sa-l controlam si intr-adevar nu avea carii si nici spalat pe dinti nu era!

--------------------

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
Never asume.
A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off of my unicorn.

Michelle Vizualizare profil forumist	22 Mar 2005, 04:06 PM Mesaj #51
Cronicar Grup: Moderator Mesaje: 3.750 Inscris: 8 January 05 Din: ??? Forumist Nr.: 5.402	Si cum ati dat "gunoiul" la o parte sa vedeti leziunile carioase ?sau a dat el de doua ori cu limba peste dinti. Stii cum e !Exceptia intareste regula!Eu zic sa nu te bazezei pe ce facea el. -------------------- Life is about having the mixture of the curiosity of an older person and the imagination of a child Daphne Guiness Mai bine sa fii urat pentru ceea ce esti, decit iubit pentru ceea ce nu esti! Anatole France

Felina

22 Mar 2005, 04:10 PM

Mesaj #52

bulina

Grup: Membri
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QUOTE (Michelle @ 22 Mar 2005, 04:06 PM)

Si cum ati dat "gunoiul" la o parte sa vedeti leziunile carioase ?sau a dat el de doua ori cu limba peste dinti.

Stii cum e !Exceptia intareste regula!Eu zic sa nu te bazezei pe ce facea el.

a dat cu limba...

sigur ca ai dreptate, exceptia confirma regula.

--------------------

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
Never asume.
A friend told me I was delusional. I almost fell off of my unicorn.

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