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Info Psihologie

Va invitam la dezbateri pe teme diverse, avand in centrul lor Omul. Domeniu umanist complex, relativ greu de surprins in ecuatii sau teorii unice, psihologia va fi si un pretext pentru a discuta despre emotii, minte si suflet.

Umorul Si Experientele Asociate, Psihologia umorului

Optiuni

calfa Vizualizare profil forumist	8 Apr 2005, 12:50 PM Mesaj #1
Cronicar Grup: Moderator Mesaje: 2.894 Inscris: 7 December 03 Forumist Nr.: 1.410	Ideea subiectului provine de aici. In articolul respectiv sunt cateva idei interesante despre natura umorului. De exemplu, ca un element cheie al umorului (in forma sa obisnuita) este ... paradoxul. O gluma obisnuita ar utiliza gandirea logica pentru a ajunge in final la un rezultat neasteptat, care surprinde. Apoi, e interesanta observatia ca umorul este legat adesea de subiectele tabu (sexul, moartea, religia, etc.) care sunt greu de discutat deschis ca urmare a existentei regulilor si conventiilor sociale. Umorul ar avea un rol social de provocare si contestare a conventiilor care, desi socialmente necesare, pot sa ne separe de radacinile noastre umane. (Ma intreb totusi, cum incadram bancurile cu politisti ? Ei ar reprezenta autoritatea contestabila ? Sau bancurile anti-minoritare ? O contestare a unor realitati care nu ne plac (asadar nu autoritatea si nici conventiile) ?) O alta categorie interesanta tratata in articol este cea a jocurilor de cuvinte. Care practic se bazeaza pe utilizarea neasteptata a unui sens diferit de cel conventional. In discutie apare si gandirea originala, care ar necesita crearea unor legaturi noi, neasteptate, care initial nu sunt evidente. Iar umorul ar fi bazat pe originalitate. Pe de alta parte, se afirma ca umorul poate fi o "afacere periculoasa", putand sa produca manie si indignare. Dar cea mai interesanta observatie mi se pare aceea ca multi dintre marii comedieni au personalitati foarte serioase, abilitatile lor pentru umor dezvoltandu-se adesea ca moduri de a evada din starile de prea adanca seriozitate catre care ii impinge personalitatea lor. Articolul mai lanseaza si alte idei, dar poate le voi aduce in atentie mai tarziu. Deocamdata, ce pareri aveti despre aceasta incercare de a explica umorul ? -------------------- ... incertitude in certitude ... independence in dependence ... insight in sight ...

Raspunsuri

calfa

7 Nov 2005, 05:48 PM

Mesaj #2

Cronicar

Grup: Moderator
Mesaje: 2.894
Inscris: 7 December 03
Forumist Nr.: 1.410

continuarea...

QUOTE

Notes

1. Groucho Marx was one of the funniest of all comedians with his one-liners. (Mae West is perhaps his counterpart among comediennes!) One anecdote that I enjoy relates to when a journalist approached him before shooting a film and asked him whether he wanted to play Hamlet! Groucho's priceless quip was "Not unless he gives me a stroke a hole!"

Now the very question here is itself something of a joke. In fact a version of Hamlet, which parodies Groucho Marx in the lead role, was once staged. Thus with respect to the given frame of reference, to play Hamlet - which is recognised as one of the most challenging of dramatic roles - would be a daunting prospect (especially for one not trained for such roles). However it quickly becomes clear that Groucho is in fact operating out of another context. Thus to play a champion "Hamlet" in golf - would be a likewise daunting task for any golfer. However if given a stroke a hole advantage it would of course be more manageable. So it is in the sudden juxtaposition of these two somewhat unrelated frames of reference that the dynamics of the joke lie.

Now it would help in appreciating the joke to have at least a passing familiarity with the important dramatic roles and also an appreciation of golf. It would also help to have a general liking for Groucho Marx's style of humour, which would then predispose one to see the remark as funny. Would it have been as funny if it had come from Karl Marx? Thus what may come across as very funny to one person may fall quite flat with another (which however only adds to the fascination of humour). It is important to realise also that what constitutes "humour" is not always clear-cut. Humour can vary enormously in its range and subtlety. Also as it necessarily interacts in experience with the complementary "humours" and indeed other understanding, it is can be sometimes very difficult to properly dissect the dynamics of what causes humour and laughter.

A very interesting Jungian observation by John Sanford is that it is the shadow in us that always laughs. Though there is a great deal of truth in this, I would prefer to associate laughter with the dynamic interaction as between the persona and shadow. Thus, though the (unconscious) shadow is thereby involved in laughter, it is activated through consciously perceived reference frames. So the (unconscious) shadow release of laughter arises from paradoxical recognition of such reference frames.

2. This bears a very close relationship with what I refer to as bi-directional understanding, which serves as the intellectual requirement for all (consistent) integral approaches to development. The simplest form of bi-directional understanding (Type 1 complementarity) is based on directly opposite polarities (e.g. interior and exterior) where two equally valid opposite frames of reference can be given for the dualistic interpretation of any event. Indeed one of the key reasons why I have been consistently critical of Ken Wilber's integral approach is that it is greatly lacking in the use of such bi-directional understanding. Thus, from a bi-directional standpoint it is somewhat meaningless for example to attempt to identify interior understanding with Left-Hand quadrants as it can be necessarily be identified (in dualistic terms) with either Left-Hand or Right-Hand. Indeed the nondual integral ability to then recognise (at an unconscious level) the simultaneous identity of both frames is then intimately connected with the paradoxical nature of both (conscious) frames in terms of each other.

Now one could validly say that the dynamics of the typical joke are based on bi-directional appreciation i.e. the ability to look at a situation simultaneously from two distinct reference frames. However with a joke, these reference frames generally do not constitute direct opposites. For example with respect to Groucho Marx's quip in the previous note, the playing of a dramatic role and playing of golf - though not directly related in dualistic terms - are equally not direct opposites in any meaningful sense. Indeed a lot of humour is based on implying a reference frame that is only slightly different from the conventional (non-humorous) situation. So, whereas mystical understanding represents training in the appreciation of pure paradox, the typical joke generally represents a much less obvious form. Also whereas the goal of mystical training is to fully harmonise opposites - thereby treating paradox as the norm - humour in all its forms requires that paradox remains unusual (in terms of conventional appreciation) thereby preserving its ability to continually surprise.

However one interesting clue to the inherently dynamic nature of humour relates to the terminology that is typically used with respect to understanding jokes. Thus we speak of someone "getting" or "not getting" a joke (as the case may be).

The very process of "getting" in physical terms implies dynamic movement. Likewise engagement with a joke implies a type of corresponding psychological movement (as between differing states and structures) that is subject to a degree of uncertainty. In other words even when we make the necessary (dynamic) effort there is no guarantee that we will successfully "get" every joke .

3. There are of course many forms of humour including jokes and one-liners, practical jokes, slapstick, wit, repartee, wordplay and puns, exaggeration and caricature, fun, comedy, pantomime, spoof and farce, irony, sarcasm, satire and parody etc. Once again the quality, complexity and intent with respect to all of these types can vary enormously thereby contributing to the rich diversity of humour.

4. Other physical expressions associated with humour include smirking, sniggering, snorting, chortling, guffawing, cackling, bellylaughing, sidesplitting, roaring, collapsing etc.

5. Ken Wilber often refers to the I-I for the Self (i.e. spiritual essence of personality) as necessary to witness the ordinary (human) I. Thus we could say that the divine and human selves continually interact with each other and in pure conscious awareness are identical (as ineffable Spirit).

However with only very little change in the form of the symbols we could refer in holistic mathematical terms to the 1-1!. Now 1 refers to oneness i.e. unitary form (which is dualistic or linear) that must be fully negated (-1) in dynamic experiential terms before pure nondual awareness can be attained. So just as 1-1 in analytic terms = 0, likewise 1-1 in holistic terms = 0 (i.e. nothingness or emptiness). Thus once again all dualistic form must be dynamically negated in experience before full spiritual emptiness can be attained.

And the two formulations are fully complementary with each other serving to enhance the overall appreciation of ultimate reality (insofar as this can be conveyed by contingent symbols). So the I-I formulation approaches this from the personal perspective with the 1-1 (i.e. = 0) formulation approaching it from the impersonal. Thus a little bit of simple wordplay proved for me very illuminating in terms of reconciling two different ways of appreciating the nature of ultimate reality.

6. Again we have a variety of other physical expressions associated with crying e.g. sighing, sobbing, wailing, moaning, screaming, shouting, shedding tears etc.

7. Though it is not strictly correct dynamically speaking to do so, it may help to initially view the immanent in terms of emotional response and the transcendent aspect in terms of mental control respectively.

Unfortunately in conventional society, too often the attempt to transcend life situations - especially by men - comes through an undue measure of rational control. This then leads to the repression of emotional response, which makes it difficult for them to preserve proper complementary balance with the immanent aspect of experience.

8. Though crying is generally understood with respect to situations invoking sorrow, there is an apparent paradox that very often the most joyous news is greeted with tears and weeping. For example if a close friend or relative undergoes a life threatening operation and then one is told that everything has gone OK, it would be customary to shed a few tears (at least). However we could explain this by the fact that while the outcome is hanging in the balance one has to face the realistic possibility of the operation going badly wrong (with all its sorrowful consequences). So the tears that ensue (on receiving the good news) mainly relates to the release of those pent-up sorrowful fears.

However it is also true that joy and sorrow are complementary opposites (which have no meaning in the absence of each other). Thus without a clear experiential conception of what great loss might entail we cannot experience corresponding great joy; equally we can only deeply embrace great grief, if we have known true joy. Ultimately as I indicate later in the article both of these experiences are merged in pure mystical awareness.

9. There is a very close relationship as between fundamental physical and psycho- spiritual notions.

In Einstein's day the two great forces were electromagnetic energy (e.g. light) and gravity. Indeed his great quest was to unify these two forces. Light of itself is literally light (i.e. without mass) and expansive (travelling at the maximum speed possible in the universe). By contrast gravity is associated with mass (heaviness and depth) and tends to be intensive. Thus within black holes where matter is in its most condensed state, gravity is at a maximum.

What is not generally realised is that there are close parallels to these forces in psychospiritual terms. Thus the experience of immanence is generally associated with an expansive spiritual light; however by contrast transcendence is associated more with gravity (i.e. seriousness) and intensive depth. Indeed I have dealt with length in other places with the remarkable parallels as between the phenomenon of the "black hole" in physics and counter phenomenon in psychospiritual development of the mystic "dark night". So just as gravity is at its greatest inside a "black hole" where matter becomes greatly compressed, likewise psychological gravity - which etymologically has very close associations with the more generally used word "grief" - is at its greatest during the transcendent stage of the "dark night".

Thus - quite literally - psychological loss in all its forms which emotionally is associated with grief leads to an inner form of contraction and darkness where psychic matter (i.e. as psychologically experienced phenomena) weighs heavily upon one. By contrast happiness and joy tend to radiate outwards as light where phenomenal activity becomes literally light and effortless.

However too much emphasis on mere light and expansiveness (through immanence) leads to experience that is unduly superficial; too much emphasis on gravity and depth (through transcendence) leads to corresponding experience that is - literally - too grave and serious.

So a balance must be maintained as between the immanent and transcendent forces.

Indeed we can provide an answer to Einstein's quest (though perhaps not the kind he was seeking). Just as the two spiritual forces of immanence and transcendence are united in emptiness (as the actualisation of pure Spirit) the two physical forces of (electromagnetic) energy and gravity are also united in emptiness (as the pure potential - before matter originates - for Spirit).

Indeed if we accept that the two other forces are just variants on energy and gravity (with the weak force relating to energy and the strong force to gravity respectively) then we can fundamentally explain all dynamic interactions through the four forces (physical and psychological).

10. Of course the best kind of workplace will creatively combine both the formal (transcendent) aspect of leadership and the more informal (immanent) aspect of humour both of which will have individual and social aspects. Thus, as individuals, workers will be motivated to do their best (i.e. provide self-leadership) while also able to benefit from outside leadership (that is expressive of the common purpose). Also workers as individuals will contribute to overall enjoyment in the workplace (e.g. through humour) due to basic happiness in their work while benefiting also from the collective good cheer.

11. There is a striking contrast as between - what is perceived as - true transcendence and false. In general one does not joke about what one deeply respects. Thus the reason why that Billy Connolly remark about the hostage Ken Bigley wishing that the terrorists "would get on with it" (i.e. execute Bigley) failed so badly, was due to the general consensus that this situation indeed warranted true respect (and therefore was not a subject for joking).

12. Oscar Wilde provides a very good example of one who shone in terms of expressions of both "humour A" and "humour C" (and combinations of both) and indeed "humour B" and "humour D"!

"I have nothing to declare but my genius" is a very witty example of "humour A".

"We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars" is a corresponding good example of "humour C". Though - like the standard joke - we have here the juxtaposition of paradoxical reference frames the intent here is serious rather than funny.

"A cynic is one who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing" (perhaps he was referring to right-wing economists!) combines both "humour A" and "humour C" in that it is witty and yet saying something very serious.

13. In early Western physiological theory there were four humours or bodily fluids, which supposedly determined a person's temperament. Whereas we would not accept this interpretation literally nowadays, we could however accurately say that there are indeed four (basic) humours present in the personality with psychophysical attributes that need to be harmonised in complementary manner for true integration.

Incidentally, because of their inherent dynamic nature i.e. combining both physical and psychological aspects, these humours cannot be properly represented in Wilberian four-quadrant terms. I have long argued for an eight-sectoral approach. Whereas in some respects four of these sectors (i.e. horizontal and vertical polarities) are similar to Ken Wilber's four-quadrant approach, the other four sectors relating to diagonal polarities are properly required to explain the relationship of the four "humours". The very basis of the diagonal polarities is that they relate directly to psychophysical interactions, which can only be ultimately harmonised through pure spiritual awareness (where transcendent and immanent aspects are identical). Thus the diagonal polarities have a double definition in terms of form (i.e. complex psychophysical interactions) and emptiness (transcendent and immanent spiritual aspects). And of course ultimately form and emptiness are identical as pure Spirit! Though I did not initially define the eight-sector approach (which has a fully scientific holistic mathematical rationale) with the four "humours" in mind, happily they correspond perfectly with the manner in which the diagonal polarities are defined. So once again this clearly illustrates to my mind the need for the enlarged eight-sector model, that has both coherent differentiated (linear) and integral (circular) intellectual interpretations.

14. There can of course be direct physical effects. For a person under stress, the facial muscles will tend to constrict giving a furrowed strained look. In this sense the physical expression would be the opposite of a smile. Other physical effects, which vary in individual circumstances, could also apply. And the long-term physical effects could be considerable leading perhaps to minor illnesses such as colds or flu or more serious health problems such as cancer and heart disease.

15. As the behaviour of the four "humours" is inherently dynamic, experience generally is not confined to any one level but may entail several levels (personal, prepersonal and perhaps transpersonal).

However when with advanced spiritual development, mature experience of the higher levels is stabilised, the way in which humour operates will be much more refined i.e. entailing the purer interaction of several levels.

16. The capacity for relaxation and control in meditation is closely associated with the immanent and transcendent aspects respectively. Meditation requires disciplined awareness; however it equally requires the ability to relax (and both of these require true detachment from all dualistic phenomena). So only in pure meditation can both of these aspects be fully integrated with each other.

17. In the holistic mathematical eight-sector approach the four "humours" would be represented by the diagonal lines that bisect each of the four quadrants (of the circle).

Thus if "humour A" is represented (in arbitrary manner) as the diagonal line bisecting the UR quadrant, then "humour B" would represent the diagonally opposite line (bisecting the LL quadrant). So the full diagonal line here slopes down from right to left.

Reverse humour i.e. "humour C" and "humour D" would then relate to the other diagonal line (i.e. in the diagonally opposite direction sloping down from left to right). So the positive version ("humour C") could be represented by the diagonal line bisecting the UL quadrant and its negative ("humour D") by the diagonal line bisecting the LR quadrant.

18. This is actually true of conventional humour though of course at an extremely superficial level. Thus for example the appreciation of the standard joke always requires the death of a certain kind of conventional expectation (brought about through the paradoxical juxtapositioning of reference frames) together with the spontaneous momentary experience of a new life of joy (i.e. laughter).

References

Humour; Encyclopćdia Britannica. 2004. Encyclopćdia Britannica Premium Service. http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9041508.

Edward de Bono: I Am Right-You Are Wrong: From This to the New Renaissance: From Rock Logic to Water Logic; Penguin Books (Reprint Edition 1992)

Arthur Koestler: The Act of Creation; Penguin Books (Reissue Edition 1990)

John A. Sanford: Dreams and Healing; Paulist Press, 1979

Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Creativity : Flow and the Psychology of Discovery and Invention; Perennial (1997)

Abbi Marc Gafni & Ken Wilber: The Supreme 1st Person Perspective: Infinite Joy & Infinite Suffering; Integral Naked, June 2004

Ei bine, acest text merita citit, impreuna cu mesajul de deschidere, inainte de a posta pe acest subiect.

Acest topic a fost editat de calfa: 7 Nov 2005, 05:52 PM

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... incertitude in certitude ... independence in dependence ... insight in sight ...

Mesaje in acest topic

calfa Umorul Si Experientele Asociate 8 Apr 2005, 12:50 PM

contraste QUOTE sunt greu de discutat deschis ca urmare a ex... 8 Apr 2005, 12:56 PM

Don Quijote Umorul - umorul acela sanatos,puternic , ironic, a... 12 Apr 2005, 07:42 AM

yuanescu QUOTE umorul acela sanatos,puternic , ironic, auto... 17 Apr 2005, 04:40 PM

agora Umorul e una din cele mai sublimate defense ale Eu... 17 Jun 2005, 09:23 AM

calfa Bun venit la Hanu Ancutei, agora ! E si asta... 17 Jun 2005, 12:10 PM

agora Mersi de urari. Umorul ca si manifestare nu e spo... 20 Jun 2005, 01:40 PM

simonsays agora, nu stiu daca pot zice ca "umorul se in... 20 Jun 2005, 06:01 PM

agora Cred ca umorul se invata. El este o evolutie a amu... 21 Jun 2005, 10:07 AM

simonsays da, cert, este o descarcare de tensiune QUOTE Umo... 21 Jun 2005, 10:29 AM

gypsyhart Intr'adevar rasul este o eliberare de energie.... 21 Jun 2005, 11:08 AM

simonsays ce-ar fi sa iesi din sedintele cu tine insuti, si ... 21 Jun 2005, 11:43 AM

gypsyhart @simon pai nu stii cum se spune "cand doi se ... 21 Jun 2005, 12:18 PM

agora Cred ca distinctia cea mai pregnanta ar fi intre a... 21 Jun 2005, 02:00 PM

dascalita Mi se pare tare elaborata definirea notiunii de um... 21 Jun 2005, 06:43 PM

agora Potentialul de a dezvolta umor al unei persoane e ... 22 Jun 2005, 09:51 AM

gypsyhart Din punctul meu de vedere, umorul cultivat de care... 22 Jun 2005, 12:47 PM

agora Umorul cultivat probabil ar putea fi ceva fals nu ... 22 Jun 2005, 01:12 PM

gypsyhart "non mental"= dincolo de ganduri.... 22 Jun 2005, 01:52 PM

agora Si atunci rasul e un fel de reflex? 22 Jun 2005, 01:58 PM

Grabillion Umorul este un mijloc de a te pune in centrul aten... 7 Nov 2005, 05:31 PM

Leonardo analiza stiintifica a umorului mi se pare lipsita ... 7 Nov 2005, 05:37 PM

calfa Iata prima parte din textul citat de mine in mesaj... 7 Nov 2005, 05:43 PM

calfa continuarea... QUOTE Reverse Humour We have defi... 7 Nov 2005, 05:47 PM

calfa continuarea... QUOTE Notes 1. Groucho Marx was ... 7 Nov 2005, 05:48 PM

aburelius n-am citit articolul, este lung, da' o sa-l ci... 7 Nov 2005, 05:59 PM

Grabillion @Leonardo Ai dreptate in ceea ce zici, dar trebui... 7 Nov 2005, 06:25 PM

Leonardo Grabillion am apreciat scurta ta dizertatie dar ... 7 Nov 2005, 06:35 PM

Grabillion Da, umorul este important, mai ales la teme serioa... 7 Nov 2005, 06:42 PM

Leonardo Grabillion am un defect esential: nu pot urmari su... 7 Nov 2005, 06:46 PM

actionmedia QUOTE (gypsyhart @ 22 Jun 2005, 12:47 PM) Din punc... 7 Nov 2005, 08:12 PM

Grabillion @actionmedia Da, ai dreptate, la rasul unui copil... 7 Nov 2005, 08:35 PM

aburelius Grabillion, aşa cred şi eu, ăla e r... 8 Nov 2005, 06:44 PM

actionmedia QUOTE (aburelius @ 8 Nov 2005, 06:44 PM) cauza ori... 9 Nov 2005, 04:35 PM

aburelius actionmedia am avut în vedere toate astea când am... 9 Nov 2005, 05:51 PM

calfa QUOTE (aburelius @ 9 Nov 2005, 06:51 PM) m-am gând... 9 Nov 2005, 06:32 PM

aburelius calfa, nu cred, m-aş fi bucurat să fie a... 9 Nov 2005, 10:01 PM

jet li Scriu dupa ce am citit ceva de Mark Twain si exper... 21 Nov 2005, 07:54 PM

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