QUOTE | Ce in'elegi prin malul stâng şi ce înţelegi prin malul drept? În orice caz, contact o fi existat dar nu tot timpul Stalingradul era ameninţat încă de prin mai-iunie, populaţia care a supravietuit a avut suficient timp sa fie evacuata.
|
cind te uiti la harta, malul sting e cel pe stinga, adica catre vest, iar cel drept celalalt. harta inainte operatiunii "Blue". uita-te si tu unde erau inca la sfirsitul lui inui. cind a inceput operatiunea. am masurat cu M$ Encarta. de la Taganrog pina la Stalingrad sunt linie aeriana 447km (+/-10 eroare). dar ia uita ce zice ivan: QUOTE | This is how Marshal A.Yeremenko, Commander-in-Chief of the Stalingrad front, remembered that day: “We’d been through a lot in the war up to that time, but what we saw in Stalingrad on August 23rd was like a nightmare. Bombs were exploding all round us and the sky was filled with columns of fiery smoke. Near the oil-storage tanks (they were situated on the banks of the Volga, north of the town centre) huge sheets of flame stabbed the sky, deluging the ground with a sea of fire and acrid fumes. Torrents of burning oil and petrol flowed on the Volga till its surface was a river of fire. Boats in the river were ablaze, asphalt on the streets emmited choking fumes and telegraph poles flared up like matches. The earth of Stalingrad was crumpled and blackened. The city seemed to have been struck by a terrible hurricane, which whirled it into the air, showering the streets and squares with rubble. The air was hot, stifling and filled with acrid fumes with made breathing difficult.” Thousands of houses and blocks of flats were destroyed in the heavy bombing, and consequently the civilian population suffered heavy casualties. Approximately 40 thousand people died and than 150,000 were wounded. They took shelter in the gullies and in the basements of houses. By the end of August the population had been reduced to 400,000. To avoid further loss of life the City Defence Committee organised the evacuation of the population together with valuable property belonging to the state. From August 24th to September 14th some 300,000 people and a large amount of factory equipment were taken across the Volga under continuous enemy fire. On September 13th, fighting began in the city itself. On that day the German at the cost of heavy losses succeeded in reaching the “Barricades” and “Krasny Oktyabr” (“Red October”) factories. On September 14th, the railway station was taken, and 8 km south the enemy reached the Volga.
|
pai n-arata a evacuare "din timp" dimpotriva. iar astia spun: QUOTE | On 23 September, a German General Staff officer visited the 295th and 71st Infantry Divisions in the center of the town. He noted that the Soviet troops remained as physically close to the Germans as possible to reduce the effectiveness of the latter’s firepower. The Soviet troops were ever alert and whenever they thought they spotted a German weakness, they immediately counterattacked. They were particularly tough now that there was little room left to retreat. The German officer observed that after the heavy artillery bombardment, troops quickly emerged from their cellar-holes ready to fire. In spite of German countermeasures, the Soviets continued to move supplies across the Volga at night.
|
QUOTE | La stalingrad se poate vorbi nu numai de asedierea oraşului ci şi de asedierea unor puncte de rezistenţă la uzina de tractoare, cartierul Orlov etc.
|
e asalt, nu asediu.
QUOTE | Prin 12 sau 13 septembrie se vorbeste de o contraofensiva a armatei 62 pentru respingerea trupelor germane din centrul oraşului. Prin urmare nemţii aveau spaţiu de manevră iar ruşii erau bricadaţi în puncte de rezistenţă. La nivel local în multe puncte din Stalingrad au existat zile de asediu veritabil. Adică trupe ruseşti încercuite şi izolate de restul armatei.
|
QUOTE | Soon after the arrival of his infantry divisions on 10 September, Paulus launched a concerted attack on the city. It progressed rapidly through the suburbs, but slowed in the inner city. The Germans seized Mamayev-Kurgan on 13 September, but it changed hands repeatedly through the following months. For both sides casualties climbed precipitously. The Soviets threw in the 13th Guard Division, which sacrificed many of its 10,000 men in grinding down the German advance.
|
prin 12 sau 13 sept. se vorbeste despre patrunderea trupelor germane in zona centrala a orasului. harta care am mai postuit-o in faza aceea nemtii erau blocati in oras si aveau spatiu de manevra nada. rusii se tineau scai de ei pentru a reduce efectivitatea armelor germane oblingindu-i sa lupte pt. fiecare casa. QUOTE | Barbarossa era încheiată.... dar obiectivele? Se poate vorbi de o înfrângere tactică germană? Din moment ce nu au fost atinse obiectivele putem considera Barbarossa un eşec?
|
n-o sa gasesti prea multi oameni care sa sustina ca Barbarossa a fost un succes din moment ce uniunea sovietica in ian 1942 inca mai lupta. motivul however, nu este implementarea (desi nimic nu e perfect) ci, dupa cum am mai spus, timingul.
QUOTE | Şi nu cred că doar vremea potrivnică a fost cauza eşecului. Au fost mai mulţi factori (interni), vremea rea din oct-nov 1941 a fost doar catalizator.
|
pai ce altceva? pentru 3 sapt. in octombrie Guderian nu s-a miscat aproape de loc. situatia s-a imbunatatit cu venirea inghetului cind viteza avansului a crescut iarasi.
QUOTE | Ai dreptate poate dacă începea mai devreme catalizatorul nu îşi mai facea efectul şi probabil în '42 luptele se dădeau dioncolo de Urali.
|
daca cadea moscova in '41 era game over.
QUOTE | Când a ajuns Ameegruppe Don si ce rol a avut?
|
rolul de a face jonctiunea cu armata a 6-a (care avea ordin strict sa nu se miste) hartaQUOTE | Şi totuşi nu înţeleg de ce nu a trecut armata germana Volga! Dacă privim acum în urmă ne gândim că poate mai puţine sacrificii s-ar fi facut pentru realizarea unui cap de pod peste Volga decât s-au facut pentru ocuparea Stalingradului.
|
pai de ce sa treaca? Volga era un obiectiv in capul lui Adolf in spatele caruia sa-si fortifice pozitia deoarece in '43 focusul se muta iara mai spre nord. si mai era obsesia de a cuceri orasul cu numele lui Stalin. obiectivul inital (modificat de tzi ori pe parcurs) era petrolul din caucaz.
Acest topic a fost editat de dead-cat: 13 Jul 2004, 10:19 PM
--------------------
Black holes are where God divided by zero.
|